Weird smells and blown fuses.

[KennyB]

Well, the other day I started noticing the smell of burning plastic coming from the wall in my room--not exactly that smell, but I've smelled it enough to know it involved something electric and something plastic.. I was worried there was a short or something, but no one else that lives here could smell it. My room is kind of a garage converted to living quarters, and the input box it has contains two 30 amp fuses. One of these blew out eventually.

Well, today we had another cartridge fuse blow out on the inside of the house, and today I'm smelling the same burning plastic smell. I haven't started noticing this until I started running my space heater; I didn't think it really consumed that much power, but apparently it's rated to 1500 watts.

Do guys think it's just the fuses making the smell, or could there be a short? It went away after the fuse blew and was replaced, so I think I'm just over-loading them. I don't want to wind up having a short though, and I really don't have the money to pay an electrician to come out.

I've got an electrical outlet tester, and all but one of them reads okay. One of them reads "open hot" though, but I don't have a clue what that means.

Like I said, I really don't have the money for an electrician otherwise I'd consult one. Is there anything I can do to keep power out here but be safe? I know it's a major fire hazard, but there's got to be something I can do.

Anyway, I just don't really know what I can do besides not running heat out here, and it's going to get too cold for that soon. Past that, if it's a short, that might not even be an adequate solution.

P.S.
Before posting this I had felt the fuse that I replaced to see if it was hot, and it was very hot--would have burnt myself if I left my finger there. I unplugged the heater for a while, and checked again and it was significantly cooler--I could leave my finger there all day and it barely felt luke warm. The smell was still somewhat present, but very faint compared to before.

 

[T. Erdelyi]

Sounds like your drawin' more current than the gauge of wire is able to handle.

When this happens the wire gets hot and the plastic starts to melt, if the wire gets hot enough it could actually melt the copper wire and cause an open circuit, if it's on the side of the power commin' into the outlet you'll have an open hot wire.

Most times when people make rooms above garages they do it themselves or get a handyman to do it, and no permits are appied for and nothin's done to building codes.

The set up you described sounds pre 70s and I doubt there's a neutral wire, probably just a hot and a ground hooked up in series.

You could have a dangerous set up that could cause a fire if you draw to much current, people typically put in a higher rated fuse when they keep blowin'.

You should have a professional electrician check it out and make sure you have a workin' smoke detector in the room.

 

[glockman99]

Sounds like your drawin' more current than the gauge of wire is able to handle.

When this happens the wire gets hot and the plastic starts to melt, if the wire gets hot enough it could actually melt the copper wire and cause an open circuit, if it's on the side of the power commin' into the outlet you'll have an open hot wire.

Most times when people make rooms above garages they do it themselves or get a handyman to do it, and no permits are appied for and nothin's done to building codes.

The set up you described sounds pre 70s and I doubt there's a neutral wire, probably just a hot and a ground hooked up in series.

You could have a dangerous set up that could cause a fire if you draw to much current, people typically put in a higher rated fuse when they keep blowin'.

You should have a professional electrician check it out and make sure you have a workin' smoke detector in the room.

Yup...100% correct.

 

[yablanowitz]

Sounds like your drawin' more current than the gauge of wire is able to handle.

When this happens the wire gets hot and the plastic starts to melt, if the wire gets hot enough it could actually melt the copper wire and cause an open circuit, if it's on the side of the power commin' into the outlet you'll have an open hot wire.

Most times when people make rooms above garages they do it themselves or get a handyman to do it, and no permits are appied for and nothin's done to building codes.

The set up you described sounds pre 70s and I doubt there's a neutral wire, probably just a hot and a ground hooked up in series.

You could have a dangerous set up that could cause a fire if you draw to much current, people typically put in a higher rated fuse when they keep blowin'.
You should have a professional electrician check it out and make sure you have a workin' smoke detector in the room.

And that is the worst thing they could possibly do. That protects the fuse by burning the wiring instead.

You are certainly drawing more amperage than the wire can handle, but it could be a problem in the connections. Loose screws or corroded wires could be responsible, especially since you already have one outlet showing open hot. Take a look at the wires in the electric panel and make sure they are copper. They used aluminum wire for a while and it doesn't hold up well. If the wire is aluminum, move. Move today. Move into your car if you have to. Unmaintained aluminum wiring is a fire waiting to happen.

 

[T. Erdelyi]

And that is the worst thing they could possibly do. That protects the fuse by burning the wiring instead.

You are certainly drawing more amperage than the wire can handle, but it could be a problem in the connections. Loose screws or corroded wires could be responsible, especially since you already have one outlet showing open hot. Take a look at the wires in the electric panel and make sure they are copper. They used aluminum wire for a while and it doesn't hold up well. If the wire is aluminum, move. Move today. Move into your car if you have to. Unmaintained aluminum wiring is a fire waiting to happen.

Thanks for bringin' that up, I neglected to mention that also if your not competent doin' electrical work find some one who is to help, if you don't know what your doin' you could get seriously hurt or even killed.

Make sure power is off at the fuse box and check with a meter or electrical tester before investigatin' your problem.

 

[mete]

YES, get an electrician to check out the whole system , NOW !

 

[Ren the devils trailboss]

Ahh what do these guys know. I wouldmsuggest gettin one of those multi plug thingies and run the space heater your micro wave and your hottub off all one outlet. Then invite me over and we will drink tequila and watch football and the heck with the smells. Especially if your renting.

 

[T. Erdelyi]

Ahh what do these guys know. I wouldmsuggest gettin one of those multi plug thingies and run the space heater your micro wave and your hottub off all one outlet. Then invite me over and we will drink tequila and watch football and the heck with the smells. Especially if your renting.

Don't forget a hotplate, you can cook somethin' stinky and the smell will be unnoticeable, drink enough Tequila and you won't be bothered by the smoke or flames.

That's I like about Ren, he makes lemonade outta Tequila.

 

[Cougar Allen]

All plug-in electric heaters are 1500 watts (well, nearly all). What else is on the same circuit? Can you put it on a different circuit? Or put some of the other stuff on a different circuit? Run a heavy duty outdoor grade extension cord from the house to the garage?

Some electric heaters have a low setting that draws half the current.

When you add up the amperage draw of everything that's on that circuit, keep in mind that anything with a motor will draw more power when it first turns on. Refrigerators take a lot of power when they cycle on, for a moment.

 

[Gollnick]

Do guys think it's just the fuses making the smell, or could there be a short? ... Before posting this I had felt the fuse that I replaced to see if it was hot, and it was very hot--would have burnt myself if I left my finger there...

No, the fuse is not making the smell.

My guess is that you have a poor connection somewhere which is getting hot.

The fuse is preventing the fire.

Yes, the fire.

FIRE!




STOP REPLACING THE FUSES!

STOP USING THAT CIRCUIT FOR ANYTHING!

As the official resident electrical engineer here on bf.c and as a UL-Cognizant Engineer, I am red-tagging that circuit sight-unseen.

That circuit MUST -- I say again MUST -- be serviced by a licensed electrician before it is put back into service.

Thus hath the Chief Engineer spoken. Thus hath the Chief Engineer written. Let all mortal flesh make it so!

 

[Gollnick]

Like I said, I really don't have the money for an electrician otherwise I'd consult one.

I know it's a major fire hazard, but there's got to be something I can do.

I'm afraid that now you have no choice but to get an electrician.

Your homeowners/renters insurnace no longer covers the FIRE.

Why not? Because you have now admitted that you know darn well about this problem. Insurance doesn't cover you for obviously-unsafe situations which you are aware of and choose to ignore.

In fact, it's vaguely possible that if someone were killed in the fire, you could face civil and even criminal liability.

Take it out-of-service and get it fixed by a licensed electrician NOW!

 

[T. Erdelyi]

...As the official resident electrical engineer here on bf.c and as a UL-Cognizant Engineer....Thus hath the Chief Engineer spoken. Thus hath the Chief Engineer written. Let all mortal flesh make it so!

Your an Electrical Engineer?

I thought you were a Musical Director.

As a Fabricator Millwright, let me tell you about Engineers....just kiddin', I've never seen any of your prints I'm sure your an Excellent Engineer.:thumbup:

Though I've worked with a few Engineers who should be ashamed to even have the word after their name.

I do agree with Gollnick and like we've all said get a professional to check it out.

Also a heavy duty extension cord is a temporary and still dangerous solution, people forget about cords, they don't inspect them frequently enough the insulation gets cracked, the ends get stretched, strain reliefs fail and before ya know it fire.

Extension cords should never take the place of proper wiring.

 

[Gollnick]

Your an Electrical Engineer?

I thought you were a Musical Director.

I am many things.

 

[T. Erdelyi]

...Like I said, I really don't have the money for an electrician otherwise I'd consult one. Is there anything I can do to keep power out here but be safe? I know it's a major fire hazard, but there's got to be something I can do...

Maybe you can find some one near you and barter, ya know trade a knife or something else like clean his service truck, do an oil change, try some creative tradin'.

 

[Gollnick]

I've never seen any of your prints ...

My prints are prefect... always! And if there is any apparent imperfection in one of my prints, that imprefection is in your interpretation of the print.

 

[Ken C.]

Get a licensed competent electrician to inspect the wiring.....NOW! I've been on too many house fires that started due to faulty wiring. One such fire was fatal to the homeowner.

 

[T. Erdelyi]

My prints are prefect... always! And if there is any apparent imperfection in one of my prints, that imprefection is in your interpretation of the print.

I've been reading your post here for some time I have no doubt about your attention to details and the quality of your designs and prints Sir, all kiddin' aside, in regards to the OP we're all tryin' to steer you in the safest and best course of action.

 

[KennyB]

I'm afraid that now you have no choice but to get an electrician.

Your homeowners/renters insurnace no longer covers the FIRE.

Why not? Because you have now admitted that you know darn well about this problem. Insurance doesn't cover you for obviously-unsafe situations which you are aware of and choose to ignore.

In fact, it's vaguely possible that if someone were killed in the fire, you could face civil and even criminal liability.

Take it out-of-service and get it fixed by a licensed electrician NOW!

While I don't want to cast too much light on my situation, I will say that I do not own a home and definitely don't have any home owners insurance. I mean, I'm living in a garage... Saying it was converted to a living space only means that someone put some cupboards, a 220v for a range and some windows in here.

Now again I don't want to cast too much light on my ilving arrangements as I'm not really doing too well, but I did consider talking to the landlord and seeing if they would pay to have the wiring looked at and fixed. Is this something that the landlord would be obligated to do?

If not, how much does hiring a licensed electrician for this kind of job normally run? I know a couple of handy man that can work with electricity, but I'm not certain how much safer their wiring may be--there's a lot of backyard mechanics out there that don't even know to use the right wire gauge.

In the meantime things have been okay without running the space heater. No smell, the wiring isn't too hot, but I still know there's a problem so it's a little tough to sleep at night--and no I don't have a smoke detector which makes it that much worse.

I found a rather long heavy-duty extension cord. Not sure how long, but I've got two extra 25 ft'ers so I should be able to run from a circuit in the house, but I'm not even sure how great the wiring in there is as we just had a 30 amp T fuse and a 60 amp cartridge fuse blow last night.

I feel like I'm living in a tinderbox with a match head hovering above me.

Edit:

Can I use lower amperage fuses to make the situation any safer? The fuse that blew was 30, and I replaced it with 25. Would be be a good idea/possible to get an even lower amp fuse so that it will burn out long before the wire gets hot?

 

[Gollnick]

... I did consider talking to the landlord and seeing if they would pay to have the wiring looked at and fixed. Is this something that the landlord would be obligated to do?

Absolutely. If you are renting this death-trap, then this is 100% an issue for the landlord to fix. Legally, yes, they are obligated to do this... no question about is. It's also the sort of thing which, no matter how cheap they are, they want to fix because this is a seven-figure lawsuit that is just days away.

...the wiring isn't too hot...

Residential wiring should NEVER be noticably warm... much less hot.

but I still know there's a problem so it's a little tough to sleep at night--and no I don't have a smoke detector which makes it that much worse.

In most cities, a landlord is also legally required to provide a working smoke alarm in all occupiable rooms.

...I'm not even sure how great the wiring in there is as we just had a 30 amp T fuse and a 60 amp cartridge fuse blow last night.

You blew a 60 amp fuse!?! As the kids say today, OMG!

That is serious!... deadly serious! That is 7200 Watts. You know how hot a 100 Watt lightbulb gets. Standard bulbs are about 50% efficient, so a 100W bulb produces about 50w of light and 50W of heat. 7200W is the heat that would be produced by 144 100W bulbs. That is a huge amount of energy... very likely to start a fire.

I feel like I'm living in a tinderbox with a match head hovering above me.

I could not have said it better myself... and I am not being over-dramatic here.

You need to call the landlord TODAY. Tell them that you have discussed this with an electrical engineer friend of yours and he says that it is his professional opinion that the building is unsafe and on the verge of burning down. Use those exact words. If you need to, e-mail me the telephone number and I will call them myself and tell them this. Give me the address and I will write them a letter on professional letterhead and tell them this. But, while I am serious that I will do it (and Ken may be will to too), this isn't necessary; once you tell them of this situation, if they ignore it then their insurance will not cover either the financial loss of the building or the civil -- even criminal -- liability which they will face. Once they are aware of this problem, neglecting it is literally criminal, reckless endangerment.

Call the landlord TODAY.

Especially if you are using space heaters, this building is not going to survive the coming winter. The question which troubles me -- and I am sure Ken too -- is will it take you with it? It certainly is going to take all of your property with it.

 

[Gollnick]

Can I use lower amperage fuses to make the situation any safer? The fuse that blew was 30, and I replaced it with 25. Would be be a good idea/possible to get an even lower amp fuse so that it will burn out long before the wire gets hot?

Yes. That will make things a LITTLE BIT safer and would be a excellent TEMPORARY safety measure.

In the mean time: no space heaters, no heating appliances of any sort, no hair driers, no hot plates, nothing that heats up at all, do not use any electric ranges. No not use any baseboard heat or electric furnaces, no furnaces at all in fact because even a gas-fired furnace has a large electric motor. You are down to two 60W bulbs and a clock radio; that's it, that's all.

I am deadly-serious here. You are in serious danger here.