What Knife Style Sells the Best?

Laredo7mm

Laredo7mm

Joined
Jul 8, 2002
Messages
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I was going to put this in Shop Talk, but I want to have it open for thread jacking and what ever discussion comes out it. Plus I kind of got "ranty" and off topic myself. As you know, please feel free to be brutally honest with me, I want to hear the good and the "constructive" criticism. So here it is.


My knife sales have been slow and I am trying to figure out why. Here is my list if stuff that I make that doesn't sell:

1) Damascus Fixed Blades
2) C1095 Fixed Blades
3) Damascus Daggers
4) Damascus Pens
5) Mokume Pens
6) Carbon Fiber Pens
7) Mokume Rings
8) Damascus Liner Lock Folders
9) Damascus Bolster Release Autos
10) C1095 Bolster Release Autos


So here is list of some questions:

1) Is it the "style" of knives that I make that does not appeal to the buying public?
2) Do I need to go tactical?
3) More damascus knives?
4) Am I priced too high?
5) Am I priced too low?
6) Do I need to go stainless?
7) More "plain" steel knives?


I am not quite sure of what I am doing wrong. My quality is very good, and I feel that I price my items fairly. But I see all kinds of $400 non damascus folders being sold and I can't sell a Damascus folder for $375. The big difference is most of what I see selling is the tactical stuff.

It would be easier to make a frame lock tactical than a damascus folder with damascus bolsters and back spacer and burl wood scales, that is for sure. Instead of spending 30 hours on a knife, I could get 30 done in an hour. ;) :rolleyes:

I thought folders were the way to go when my fixed blades weren't selling. Then I thought autos were the way to go when my liner locks weren't selling. Now my autos are not selling, so now where do I go?

It is just frustrating to me when I walk around a knife show and look at other peoples stuff and I know that mine is just as good or better, but mine doesn't sell. Now don't take that last comment the wrong way, I am not big headed or have an ego, just an opinion. ;) I would like to start doing shows, but I am not sure which ones are the best to do. All that we have local are the "swap meet" style do hickeys, and I don't think that is my target market.

Now, that brings me to another thought. One thing I remember from some class I had was the following phrase:

"Find a product for the market, not a market for your product."

So, what type of knife sells the best, and what do I need to do differntly?
 
IMHO
you've answered your own question on one thing to do..
you can't sell walking the shows, while the makers are selling at the tables. wrong side of the table..if you are in the show,, read on..

"Find a product for the market, not a market for your product."

a market for your product
is done all the time, but you need money to do that most the time or it takes a lot of time.

"Find a product for the market"
unique should be added..

Sean you have to sell yourself once you do,, your knives will sell
look at all the great makers them or someone is selling them as a great maker, not the other way around.. I'll bet
if you give an unmarked knife that a so called great maker made to
an unknown new maker and put in on the net or even on a show table
you'll get comments maybe but no where the price the known maker will get.

I had a dealer selling my knives tell me some time ago.
he said to me " Dan you make a great knife but my customers don't know you..I'm selling knives of other makers that don't compare to your work but they are better known.. "

that's the way it goes , not always true though
you have two main types of buyers
in general. the collector that wants to know the maker this is the one you want, a repeat buyer..

the other is the buyer that's just a one timer.
I don't get a lot of time myself at shows but have done well on the net,

mainly because I list well, then from there I get lucky with some of the buyers ending up being repeat buyers, and have gotten a few good collectors too.

sell your self then your product and tell the customer why your knife is
what they need, I do well making what the customer wants with a guiding nudge in the right direction.. I hope this helps some..

edited to add remember when I said name???
selling your self,,, as in saying,,, not with hype or at least believable and true.. I'm not pointing this at you Sean it's just for the reading of everyone..
but we've all seen some of this here..and then to much modesty can slow you down to the point you won't make it...
you are thinking the work is not just perfect, well most of us are not. custom makers are artist not machines finding the line in between will always be and issue
I have the same feelings as you, if the customer likes what he sees he will buy it if price is to his liking too.
you just need to make sure what he doesn't see, works,( as in usable)
style of your own will develop as business picks up, you will change with your customer base ask your customer what they want or would like to see and then use your flare don't copy what they want you are the artist not a copier..
you can give them what they want in your style..you'll develop your style as time shapes it..

I get the feel you're something like me ..example..
I'm not a carpenter ( don't claim to be one anyway, I wonder some times) but when I can do a better job than 95% of them, I then have to do it my self..some carpenters work sux real bad.. being a jack of all trades and a master of none is good but the pay is bad,,,

this is an evolving trade, if you wait until it's perfect you'll be a long time
selling anything. and then you see makers that just should wait to get the basics down at least, these are the ones that should think about it but they will either learn or weed themselves out..it's just the fact of the matter..
I can't comment on your knives other that what I see in the pictures
if you have the basics all set and feel good about the rest push them and feel the price out...
holding back....
if i catch what you mean this to be,,
what if I get orders that I'm not sure I can live up to?

well worry about that when the time comes it won't happen over night ,,
most the time anyway,, there are exceptions...
 
Don't know how to answer your question because my stuff is hit or miss, too. Fortunatey I can afford that! I think it's a matter of the right person seeing the right knife at the right time, which is about as helpful as nothing. From what I can see, the best selling custom makers and some of the smaller production makers have this going for them:

1) A niche market: you have Strider, which makes expensive tacticals, and 40% of their market is active military (who I assume don't get paid all that super), for example. Or you take Bark River who has a lock on the "bushcraft" type of knife and a rabif following. Or Busse/Swamp Rat, who has people buy three of the same knife with different handle combos, etc. Even the custom makers seem to have a bit of a niche, too, and that probably comes from the development of a style and running with it (like, if I wanted to buy a Japanese style knife today you can bet your butt I'd be emailing Michael Burch). If I can "criticize" one thing about you, it's that you do a lot of different things, really well! Take that! :rolleyes:

2) A name. I think it helps to have an identifiable name/identity. To everyone here, you're Laredo/Sean, but to the knifebuying public you're just some dude. Look at the corporate world, where a swoosh is synonymous with shoes and red white and blue means Pepsi and you have those damn golden arches, etc. So, I think having a strong identity is helpful. I think for custom makers that means getting rid of screen names and going with your real name, or establish a company name of some sort. I think that establishes more permanence in people's minds.

3) Get your knives out there. I think displaying at shows, meeting people, maybe even taking a hit on some knives and spreading them around, helps. I think the Passaround forum could potentially be a super way to get some knives in people's hands and start generating some buzz.

4) Which brings me to the end of this, which is that you have to generate some buzz. How to do that? Beats the heck out of me, but the knife folks who do well, whether companies or single makers, have a very excited "fan base." You get some people who like your knives and man, things go crazy because of word of mouth.

You make awesome stuff. Those rings kick ass, your pens kick ass, your knives kick ass. I think if I had to say that there's one thing holding you back, it's that you don't have a known name. It's kind of like that thing where you go out for your first job and they say "Sorry, son, you don't have any experience." Then you say "Well, how can I get experience if I can't get a job?" How do you establish a name without selling knives, and how to you sell kninves without a name? Figure that one out and you can shelve the knives altogether and become a consultant! :D

Oh, and I think if you want to maximize your chances at selling a knife based simply on style alone, make a Wharncliffe. Seriously! The one knife I get more praise than anything on is that Wharncliffe in my avatar. Also, I put a small Wharnie up for sale and it sold within a few hours. I have another one like it on order and an order for a knife like the one in my avatar. Yet, I have a really comfy, but kind of ugly, knife for sale on all the forums and it's like you can hear the crickets chirping. So, make some chisel ground tactical wharncliffe's and you'll be all set! ;)
 
Your work is obviously top-notch and you've developed something that is a good thing and that I need to find -- a certain style. If the blades aren't selling, lower the set price a bit. No one is going to know how well-built your blades are unless they get them into their hands. And people aren't going to purchase high-dollar blades if they don't know your "name." But once you get some knives out, word of mouth spreads, demand rises, and you can raise your prices more to your liking.

Another option is to contact a reputable dealer about selling your knives. You may take a little cut in pay but it will get your blades on the market.

Just my 2 cents.
 
I've been fortunate it that I've found that my knives appeal to certain groups of "users". I decided when I got into this, that I would specialize in a particular type/style of knife. I make knives set toward what I'm experience at, hunting and the outdoors. I pick peoples brains about what they look for in a hunting/outdoor/survival type of knife. I've been doing this for 7 years at the gunshows and hunting shows I sell at. My potential customers tell me what they want and that's what I make. The problem with some hunters is they don't particularly care what kind of knife they have as long as it cuts. That's where I step in with education. I usually end up making a sale that way. My 25 plus years of hunting experience helps me to know what is necessary for a good hunting knife. For me I feel I'm more a toolmaker then a knifemaker. I feel my knives are more a tool then a knife. Collecting is great but if the knife doesn't got used, what's the point of proper blade geometry, edge retention and proper heat treat. I don't mean to offend the makers who make for collectors, this is just the way it's works for me.
Scott
 
Sean, these guys have given you some great advice. Not much to add.

Name familiarity goes a long way.
 
Sean, I had a look at your site and it's obvious you do great work and I think your prices are good too.

If I had my pick of the knives on your site, I'd have that 1095 hunter. To me, knives with damascus, mokume and figured woods have too much going on visually. From the pictures on your site your design and finish work is so strong that the knives could stand on that alone without the fancy materials.

That's my advice, and it's probably worth what you paid for it. :) I hope the sales pick up.
 
Thanks all, I appreciate it, I really do. I think part of my problem is that I have the "scared to succeed" syndrome. I often feel like I am holding myself back for some reason or another, but don't know why. After ten years of making a very good living as an Engineer and making multi-million dollar project decisions, I am scared that my $400 knife isn't good enough to sell.

If that is not messed up I don't know what is. But going to the shows and seeing what is out there gives me some confidence in my abilities. I think it is going to be a long hard road for me to get over my feelings of inadequacy as a maker. I know we all have short comings in our work, but I see mine as not being worthy for selling the piece, even though they are minor and only an educated eye can see them. Just ask Kevin Cashen about our discussion at the Bager Show if you want to know the degree of "pickey" that I have. ;)

Time will tell, but all I know is that I love making things by my own hands. Whether it is knives, pens, or jewelry, nothing gives me more satisfaction than creating something out of basically nothing. With the good Lord giving, he/she will allow me to make a living at it.

With that said, I am off to the shop and then to figure out what shows i need to go to.

Thanks again for all the replies.

-Sean
 
I made knives part time for 6 yrs. before I felt my work was good enough to sell and that was almost 8 yrs ago. I tested and tested, my knives would pass every test I would perform on them but still I was afraid of putting one on the market that might fail. I like making all types of knives from plain carbon to damascus but my favorite is Mosaics. I would rather put 2 weeks into making one totally unique bowie then take 3 days to make a plain hunter, but thats what separates us from other makers and the market. Its a hard business, until you can get a name and unless you have at least one well established named maker that can help promote you quickly, it takes time. I know a few that have risen to the top quickly in this profession but it was only because they had a well known, promoting them. Its a feast or famine business and until you can get known its going to stay that way.

I know I had the same throughts as you right after I went fultime and still do at times. I would read the forums and see where other makers were posting how they had so many orders that they needed to get made, and here I was not getting any inquiries at all. Then after farther review from other makers, the orders were from brothers, cousins and close friends, also they were calling knives they were making to give for Christmas and Birthday gifts orders. Thats when I realized they weren't doing any better then me, they just made it sound like they were.

Another thing I see all the time is the way many makers price their knives. You have to stay competitive in your pricing but don't eat metal dust just for the fun of it. This is a very expensive profession- belts, sand paper, steel, gas, equipment, quality handle materials, not to mention your time all add up quickly. If you price you knives cheap that tells the public that you make a cheap knife, if you price you work to where you can come out ahead with a high quality piece, the public will see that too. Sure we can't price our stuff like Fowler, Fisk or Moran. But use good judgement and price it fair to yourself.
Its a tough tough business, time and self promotion accounts for failure or success.

I wish you the best, but I'm afraid if your expecting overnight success in this business, your in the wrong business. But I've been wrong many times before.

Bill
 
B . Buxton said:
I would read the forums and see where other makers were posting how they had so many orders that they needed to get made, and here I was not getting any inquiries at all. Then after farther review from other makers, the orders were from brothers, cousins and close friends, also they were calling knives they were making to give for Christmas and Birthday gifts orders. Thats when I realized they weren't doing any better then me, they just made it sound like they were.

Bill
Click to expand...

I've made 10 knives for hunting buddies in the last 6 years or so,, zero for family and friends,, :eek: :)
if they are to cheap to buy them they don't need them :D

for Christmas and Birthday gifts I just buy the gifts, it cost me way less that way..
I know what you mean though,, it's a faults sense of being ( for lack of better words) to hear things like that and find it not so true. it's not an easy road to crawl up by any means..if you have questions I can help with I'll be as honest as I can be with you..
I have nothing to gain doing other wise
 
Thanks guys, I appreciate you honest answers and you good advice. I don't expect it to happen over night, but it just gets frustrating at times. But like thay say, if it was easy, every one would be doing it. I just need to exercise some of that patience that i learned while making knives.

Here is an email I received the other day regarding to this post:

"Hi,
This is in reference to your question as to what sells. I am a knife
buyer who is a potential customer of your class of knives. I can only
give you my very limited personal opinion. I have a $900 Kiji Hara
folder at the high end, a number Randalls and a variety of others. I
like your Damascus work and your prices are good, but you do not make
anything that I really like due to the esthetics. For example I
especially like elegant folders. When I look at the pictures of them on
your site I like the individual components but not the overall effect of
the final product. The big name makers have a dependable ability to put
out knives with a much more pleasing esthetic effect than you have been
able to do to this point. You have made too many different types of
knives none of which really works. This may sound cruel although I do
not intend it to be so, but if you cannot see why successful makers
knives are much better than yours then you should not be in the
business. You have a lot of skill on the technical side but to sell
custom knives you must appeal to the esthetic. A $50 Sog or Kershaw
looks good and cuts well. It is going to take a lot to convince me to
part with $400 for a custom knife and I have not seen anything on your
site that is worth it to me. I apologize if I have offended you since
that is not my intent."

I appreciate the criticism, all though I don't think Randall's handles have a very pleasing line to them, but that is me. The Koji Hara's are very nice, and maybe I should play around with using pearl.
 
Dan I wasn't mentioning any names or insinuating it was any makers that now exist, matter of fact its been a few years back now and I really don't remember what the makers names were that were posting such fabrications.


My point was that these things do get said and it can be dishearting and very depressing when your sitting here wondering why your work isn't at least inquired about. Like I said before, this is a very expensive profession, and when your depending on it to help pay bills,put food on the table and support itself, it can, and is hard on a person mentally. So those that think they can just up and quit a good job and succeed overnight, well I wish them the best.

I about gave up this profession more then once, but from the encouragement from my wife and a couple really good friends I stayed the course and now after 6 years of fulltime making, sells are becoming more consistant and I don't have the worries I had just a couple years ago. Concerns YES, I still wonder if my success is just a passing fab or if I just finally made it into the next stage of recognition. Recognition is the key word for success in any profession, so long as its good. But to get that recognition takes time and hard work, both mentally and physically, and sometimes a lot of luck.

I worked construction for 30 years, my house and vehicles are paid for, my wife has a good job and my son is grown ( now if I can just get his butt though college 2 more years, the wife and I might get to take a vacation again) without all that I wouldn't have been able to succeed as a fultime maker. I'm not saying what I've experienced will be the same for all, I can only tell how its been for me, and wish someone would have told me this when I got started.
I do wish all that follow the path to their dreams the best of luck, but sometimes it might be better to follow that path with short steps, then to take a gaint one, until you have gained some recognition. GOOD LUCK

Bill

I was typing my post when you posted yours and I want to say
Thanks for posting that Sean, and thank you to however sent it to you, very good advise that all us knifemakers need to get into our thick heads.
 
Well, here's my experience for what it's worth - and that ain't much because I don't make many knives and do not depend on the income.

It's a three-legged stool:

1. Price. Unknown makers cannot command the price known makers do. Period, regardless of the quality of craftsmanship. They say, and I believe it, to break into this competetive arena you have to price below what the known makers do. I'm not talking famous makers, just our everyday guys who have been making for years. "Paying dues" is as true here as anywhere.

2. Workmanship. It's true that an unknown maker may have trouble selling a better-made knife than one by a known maker, but craftsmanship is what will give your knives value down the road. It takes years to earn a reputation and quality work is the only thing that will create one. You have to have quite a few knives in circulation to begin to get some confidence from buyers.

3. Name. You have to get your stuff in front of billions of eyes, and for a long time. Name recognition is the only thing that will develop demand, and that's what will affect price. There are many ways to do this. Posting knives in the sale area here is one though I haven't had much luck with that. Going to shows is probably the best way because the people coming there are there for one specific reason: to buy knives. They will look, and after they've seen you a few times begin to buy. (So I'm told; I've never set up at a show but I'd love to if I can ever get caught up enough. ;)) What did it for me was having a few knives professionally photographed. Magazine editors tend to select their photos from professional photographers, because those guys know how to submit the work in a way that the editors want to see it. If you're lucky your photos will be used occasionally. After a few of my knives had shown up in Blade I finally started getting orders from people who don't know me - but it took a couple of years. Finally, there is nothing better than having a couple of good dealers on your side. They're out there talking to knife buyers all the time and their best customers rely on them; get a dealer behind you and they will sell your knives. I slightly discount my prices to dealers and it's paid off handsomely. The caveat to all of this is that you have to do it all the time. As soon as you fade from anyone's attention they'll forget you.

As for the esthetic component. I believe that there is a market for pretty much whatever one wants to make, so follow your vision. That's really all you have, in the end. If your craftsmanship is good and your prices enticing, someone will buy your knives - eventually. You'll notice that nothing I said above had anything to do with "what knife style sells the best." I don't think a particular type of knife has anything to do with it, and my experience bears that out. I've made some wierd stuff and people have paid their good money for it.

Bruce Evans once told me to price my knives fairly and stick to my prices; someone would come along - eventually. He's right. Amusingly, dealers act like I charge too much for my work and buyers say too little. Because I can never keep anything around for more than a few days, I probably don't charge enough. The rule of thumb I've always heard is that if your inventory is stacking up the price is too high; if you can't keep anything around it's too low.

This was too many words, sorry. I really don't know jack, because I've only sold about 80 knives. After I've sold a few hundred then I'll think what I'm saying might have some value. :rolleyes:
 
no problem Bill
I know what you meant it does happen..

yes Dave reminded me too about the photo's they will pay for them selves
in advertising time, the books like knives 200- will be in the hands of knife guys for years..

that guy is right in a way but remember it's just his Opinion but some good things to think about too.
what works for him may not for someone else..and there is a class line to step over.
study those high end folders and fixed blades
some of what I see here and there is ,, a knife may just need a little more work.
I mean.... you see some knives that just looks like the maker stopped and didn't dare to go a littler father, then you have the ones that tipped over the top just a little too far ( wild).. and by all means I have a lot to play with too
for improvements..this I know and the thing is I know what I have to do too. I just need to take the time to do it.. push the envelope a bit more. if you have the time ,, work it,, before you don't have the time...

but the higher end materials does a lot for stuff too.
my wife says I need to get the high end folders going and she's right, I need to stop taking orders and work on them..
I was told by a dealer to do that too. it's getting beat into my head now..I just got to do it.
could be easier said than done too..
one problem with me is money doesn't interest me a lot..it's not the motivator with me..I got burned out trying to make money in other business,
it's nice to have but as you can see with things right here I'd rather do a colab knife or a KITH ,, then.
I have to do the orders :(
damn weird way to be isn't it :eek: :)
 
Dan, I know exactly what you mean when you say it isn't the money. But without the money, unless your already very well off, you won't last without it.

To me its the recognition more then money, I know its arrogant to say on my part but I want people to see my name on a knife and say, "that Buxton guy makes one of the best knives I've ever owned". I guess its from all the years of trial, error and testing knife after knife, that creates this mentality. I know I'll never be as well known or popular as many of the already greats or most of you that visit and post on this forum , but there's always that pie in the sky that I'll keep reaching for until I'm no longer able.

Time to heat up some steel and make another master piece, in my mind anyway. ;)

Good luck to all,

Bill
 
One of the biggest things you have to do is set-up at shows.

You have to get your knives, your face, and your personality in front of the buying public.

Simply walking around the show and looking at others work is good for seeing what's out there. But IMHO, you HAVE to set up a table.

And don't let the guys here swell your head too much. I'm not knocking YOU Sean... just a general statement.

The guys here are all VERY NICE and mean well, but I have seen several of them blow a lot of smoke to people about how they should "just get an Ms stamp tomorrow", "their knives are perfect," etc. Then I see said maker's work in person and it's FULL of flaws.

While the compliments make a guy feel good... it's the collectors with cash in hand that really matter when it comes time to decide if you're succeeding with what you're producing or not.

I took my work to just about every maker I could get to look at it at shows, asking for critiques and advice. At first it was simply getting mistakes pointed out that I went home and tried to improve on. As I got better, it turned into those makers telling people, "hey, check this guy out, he's serious about making knives." That will be a HUGE boost to what you do.

Overall I think you just have to make the best knife you can, improve as much as you can, and keep your chin up while going to shows and promoting your work online.

Of course this is all just my opinion... :)

-Nick-
 
Thanks again to everybody for their input, this is the kinda of info i was hoping to get. I know I have benefited from it and hopefully others have too.
 
Bottom line for me has been going out of my way for the buyers of my knives. I don't depend on the money to pay bills. The money I get is used to resupply and upgrade equipment. It also pays for show tables. I was told once by another maker that custom knives don't sell at gunshows. You'd be suprised how many knife people go to them looking for knives. When I do the Chesapeake knife show there are alot of people I see from the gunshows that come to that. The way you present yourself is as important as how well your knives are made. If you act like a dickhead you're not going to sell much. Show them that you are passionate about what you do, it does make a difference.
Scott
 
B . Buxton said:
Dan, I know exactly what you mean when you say it isn't the money. But without the money, unless your already very well off, you won't last without it.

Bill
Click to expand...
you got it Bill.. that's why I said
then I have to do the orders :(

I don't look for the recognition either or I havn't anyway not in a way to
propell myself.. I should I guess
case and point I have had the chance and still do
to make and send a knife to an editor (part time now, maybe? ) of
the NY times he writes hunting articals but he want one to test him self before he writes about it..that's fair..and he insisted on buying it.
I spent a long time a loner. and it hasn't moved me.. numb nuts right!!
this is not a good trate for a maker that wants recognition for sure..

this all has me thinking that I need to put my money where my mouth is and
put what I say into practice.. to watch the sucess of someone could be a
great tool too to others here..hmmmm
. if all goes well this summer an dthe wife gets to keep her job ,, I have some work to do.. :) I've created road blocks for myself to get around.. I've always thought with a few guys, a few plans, and a lot of will, we can do anything we want..
 
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