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Bowie fixed blade is my dream...
I do hope to find the courage to start one day this difficult challenge.
What would you like to see from LionSteel?
- Thread starter RamZar
- Start date
Bowie fixed blade is my dream...
I do hope to find the courage to start one day this difficult challenge.
RamZar
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You already made a Bowie fixed blade for Pohl Force - Quebec One.
Something smaller would be better.
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No no.. RamZar, something more classic.
A new version of the classic bowie design, with guard, solid handle ecc
A new version of the classic bowie design, with guard, solid handle ecc
RamZar
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gga357
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Last edited:
RamZar
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A streamlined use of your word mark/logo type. "LionSteel" vs "Lionsteel" vs "Lion Steel".
They also use lionSTEEL.
WARNING: incoming wall of text:
In order for me to articulate what I would WANT from LionSteel, I would first like to explain why the current product lineup doesn't do it for me.
While my comments may seem harsh, I mean all of this in the most constructive sense.
The pricier offerings:
TM1: This is a model that I was genuinely interested in. I like reverse tantos, I like strong backlocks, and an integral handle would lighten the knife considerably. The one part of this knife that I just don't get is the IKBS. The videos on the knife that are out there show that the knife can't be thumb-flicked open. If the backlock applies far too much pressure for the knife to move freely, then I don't see the point of weakening the pivot to side-to-side stress. The exception to this would be thumbstuds/bladestops. Since those prevent the blade from moving laterally, then I don't see any issue in eeking out some more smoothness from the pivot as compared to teflon or phosphor bronze washers. Also, this knife is really pricey, to the point where I could get a Sebenza for that kind of money. Some might argue that the TM1 offers more value and quality than a Sebenza, and with good reason, but a design that I otherwise appreciate is locked behind a rather high price.
Sr-1 Ti:
My beefs with the design of the knife will be covered below. Also the damascus version kind of clashes with the otherwise rugged-looking knife.
TiSpine: A good edc-gentleman's offering, but once again, Too darn expensive.
M7: This knife has received good reviews across the board, and I like the design. Molletta's signature exaggerated drop-point actually works here. $265 is actually pretty reasonable for this size of knife. If I could change one thing about this knife it would be the steel. Knife Research manufactures a knife called the Enki with Vanadis 4 Extra, and that steel has performed spectacularly in every test I have seen. Granted, The Enki is a smaller knife, and it still costs $355+ dollars, so I may be asking for too much here... I think the Enki is actually manufactured by LionSteel, so my point could be completely moot.
-------
More reasonably priced offerings:
Opera/Mini Damascus/Skinner: Designs that I'm not interested in, nothing wrong with them, just not for me.
M2/M3: Good, but Fox Knives offers the Molletta-designed Pro-Hunter fixed and I like it a little better.
Lionsteel Sr-1a: When I first saw this knife I regarded it quite highly, especially in terms of value. I put it up there with the BM 581 Barrage, Spyderco Gayle Bradley, Hogue Ex-04, Boker Haddock, Al Mar Eagle HD, Protech Doru, Viper Keeper, EnZo Birk 75, etc., all knives with high value for the asking price.
With a 4mm thick blade, it wasn't going to be a fine slicer, so the only way a blade like this can distinguish itself is to perform especially well in hard use. The knife looked tough enough and initial cutting tests looked promising, but nobody actually tested the handle, and that was what I was concerned about. Besides, some higher-end Rocksteads, there haven't been any AL framelocks on the market at all. I held off on buying it until I could find some harsher testing.
Then I saw this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWtV8eVBxEA
I find the results to be very disappointing. A summary for those that dont have 40 minutes on their hands or dont speak Russian: The stop-pin deformed and bent the surrounding aluminum, the pivot deformed, the steel insert came loose and the lock ceased to function. The Rotoblock was bent out of the way of the lockbar. At the end of the test, the knife had massive amounts of up-and-down play and would close with very little pressure, almost like a slipjoint. Some may suggest that the test conditions were too harsh and no folder could survive them. Given that the Benchmade 275 Adamas and ZT 0550 passed with flying colors, I think the conditions were perfectly reasonable. It is also important to note that the sr-1a weighs 5.57 ounces while the aforementioned ZT 0550 weighs 6.2 ounces, so I expect similar durability.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AgfctrIRsI1_dERmZ1JQYXhZTUswaEd6ZlZkOUdTemc#gid=0
Looking at the blade, I get the impression that the Sr-1 was supposed to be a rugged beast of a folder. It seems that this intent was not carried over to the rest of the handle. The slippery aluminum does not provide a good grip for such a substantial blade, and the Teflon washers have been known to deform under lateral stress. It almost seems like the design intent of the folder was changed midway, instead seeking to make a folding prybar that would still be comfortable to carry. That would explain the effort to lighten the knife with AL scales, and the deep-carry clip, as well as the introduction of a smaller version, the sr-2a.
If someone told me that the Sr-1 was a milestone in folding knife design and engineering, I would agree with them wholeheartedly. My fear is that it may not be much more than that.
Given all of that, heres what I personally would like to see from LionSteel.
A redesigned, more durable Sr-1a: Im still not sure what went wrong with the aluminum construction, but this particular alloy appears to be too soft to support harder steel parts like the stop-pin or the lockbar insert. It may also be that the stop-pin focused a lot of force on a small area, causing the Al to mushroom outwards. This could potentially averted by widening the contact area with the surrounding aluminum, or even adding in stainless nested liners. Whatever the reason, I think the Sr-1a could be made more durable. I think I remember something about the SR-X which is supposed to be aredesign of the Sr-1, so LS migh even be working on something already
The Lionsteel Al-Spine: for all of the criticism of the aluminum construction, I think the aluminum treatment would be perfect for the Ti-spine, even in its current form. Its a lightweight edc knife, and it would only benefit from being lighter and less expensive.
Better steels: While I actually like d-2 a lot, I dont think Lionsteels innovative streak should be restricted to just the manufacturing of knives. And in that sense, I really like how instead of lowering the price on the sr-2a, Lionsteel went ahead and changed the blade steel to Sleipner. At this point in time, Sr-2a stands as the least expensive way for a knife knut to get their hands on Sleipner.
Custom maker collaborations: Lionsteel has already done these, most notably with Robert Young Pelton, but here are some suggestions: Ive heard murmurings of an IKBS flipper, so imagine a Dmitry Sinkhevich Coordinator in an integral frame with anodization and Lionsteels trademark milling. Also CRKT recently discontinued the Liong Mah Eraser, so imagine it as a titanium bolsterlock with milling going across the scales and the ti. New offerings dont have to be those exactly, just interesting designs that effectively distinguish themselves from the rest of the market.
Overall, I would like Lionsteel to keep innovating, but not let the innovations detract from an otherwise good design.
Also, I would like to make clear that none of what I have said is meant to bash Lionsteel and its fans. I simply want to offer constructive criticism, and frankly I wouldnt have written so much if I didnt like a lot of what LionSteel has been doing.
In order for me to articulate what I would WANT from LionSteel, I would first like to explain why the current product lineup doesn't do it for me.
While my comments may seem harsh, I mean all of this in the most constructive sense.
The pricier offerings:
TM1: This is a model that I was genuinely interested in. I like reverse tantos, I like strong backlocks, and an integral handle would lighten the knife considerably. The one part of this knife that I just don't get is the IKBS. The videos on the knife that are out there show that the knife can't be thumb-flicked open. If the backlock applies far too much pressure for the knife to move freely, then I don't see the point of weakening the pivot to side-to-side stress. The exception to this would be thumbstuds/bladestops. Since those prevent the blade from moving laterally, then I don't see any issue in eeking out some more smoothness from the pivot as compared to teflon or phosphor bronze washers. Also, this knife is really pricey, to the point where I could get a Sebenza for that kind of money. Some might argue that the TM1 offers more value and quality than a Sebenza, and with good reason, but a design that I otherwise appreciate is locked behind a rather high price.
Sr-1 Ti:
My beefs with the design of the knife will be covered below. Also the damascus version kind of clashes with the otherwise rugged-looking knife.
TiSpine: A good edc-gentleman's offering, but once again, Too darn expensive.
M7: This knife has received good reviews across the board, and I like the design. Molletta's signature exaggerated drop-point actually works here. $265 is actually pretty reasonable for this size of knife. If I could change one thing about this knife it would be the steel. Knife Research manufactures a knife called the Enki with Vanadis 4 Extra, and that steel has performed spectacularly in every test I have seen. Granted, The Enki is a smaller knife, and it still costs $355+ dollars, so I may be asking for too much here... I think the Enki is actually manufactured by LionSteel, so my point could be completely moot.
-------
More reasonably priced offerings:
Opera/Mini Damascus/Skinner: Designs that I'm not interested in, nothing wrong with them, just not for me.
M2/M3: Good, but Fox Knives offers the Molletta-designed Pro-Hunter fixed and I like it a little better.
Lionsteel Sr-1a: When I first saw this knife I regarded it quite highly, especially in terms of value. I put it up there with the BM 581 Barrage, Spyderco Gayle Bradley, Hogue Ex-04, Boker Haddock, Al Mar Eagle HD, Protech Doru, Viper Keeper, EnZo Birk 75, etc., all knives with high value for the asking price.
With a 4mm thick blade, it wasn't going to be a fine slicer, so the only way a blade like this can distinguish itself is to perform especially well in hard use. The knife looked tough enough and initial cutting tests looked promising, but nobody actually tested the handle, and that was what I was concerned about. Besides, some higher-end Rocksteads, there haven't been any AL framelocks on the market at all. I held off on buying it until I could find some harsher testing.
Then I saw this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWtV8eVBxEA
I find the results to be very disappointing. A summary for those that dont have 40 minutes on their hands or dont speak Russian: The stop-pin deformed and bent the surrounding aluminum, the pivot deformed, the steel insert came loose and the lock ceased to function. The Rotoblock was bent out of the way of the lockbar. At the end of the test, the knife had massive amounts of up-and-down play and would close with very little pressure, almost like a slipjoint. Some may suggest that the test conditions were too harsh and no folder could survive them. Given that the Benchmade 275 Adamas and ZT 0550 passed with flying colors, I think the conditions were perfectly reasonable. It is also important to note that the sr-1a weighs 5.57 ounces while the aforementioned ZT 0550 weighs 6.2 ounces, so I expect similar durability.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AgfctrIRsI1_dERmZ1JQYXhZTUswaEd6ZlZkOUdTemc#gid=0
Looking at the blade, I get the impression that the Sr-1 was supposed to be a rugged beast of a folder. It seems that this intent was not carried over to the rest of the handle. The slippery aluminum does not provide a good grip for such a substantial blade, and the Teflon washers have been known to deform under lateral stress. It almost seems like the design intent of the folder was changed midway, instead seeking to make a folding prybar that would still be comfortable to carry. That would explain the effort to lighten the knife with AL scales, and the deep-carry clip, as well as the introduction of a smaller version, the sr-2a.
If someone told me that the Sr-1 was a milestone in folding knife design and engineering, I would agree with them wholeheartedly. My fear is that it may not be much more than that.
Given all of that, heres what I personally would like to see from LionSteel.
A redesigned, more durable Sr-1a: Im still not sure what went wrong with the aluminum construction, but this particular alloy appears to be too soft to support harder steel parts like the stop-pin or the lockbar insert. It may also be that the stop-pin focused a lot of force on a small area, causing the Al to mushroom outwards. This could potentially averted by widening the contact area with the surrounding aluminum, or even adding in stainless nested liners. Whatever the reason, I think the Sr-1a could be made more durable. I think I remember something about the SR-X which is supposed to be aredesign of the Sr-1, so LS migh even be working on something already
The Lionsteel Al-Spine: for all of the criticism of the aluminum construction, I think the aluminum treatment would be perfect for the Ti-spine, even in its current form. Its a lightweight edc knife, and it would only benefit from being lighter and less expensive.
Better steels: While I actually like d-2 a lot, I dont think Lionsteels innovative streak should be restricted to just the manufacturing of knives. And in that sense, I really like how instead of lowering the price on the sr-2a, Lionsteel went ahead and changed the blade steel to Sleipner. At this point in time, Sr-2a stands as the least expensive way for a knife knut to get their hands on Sleipner.
Custom maker collaborations: Lionsteel has already done these, most notably with Robert Young Pelton, but here are some suggestions: Ive heard murmurings of an IKBS flipper, so imagine a Dmitry Sinkhevich Coordinator in an integral frame with anodization and Lionsteels trademark milling. Also CRKT recently discontinued the Liong Mah Eraser, so imagine it as a titanium bolsterlock with milling going across the scales and the ti. New offerings dont have to be those exactly, just interesting designs that effectively distinguish themselves from the rest of the market.
Overall, I would like Lionsteel to keep innovating, but not let the innovations detract from an otherwise good design.
Also, I would like to make clear that none of what I have said is meant to bash Lionsteel and its fans. I simply want to offer constructive criticism, and frankly I wouldnt have written so much if I didnt like a lot of what LionSteel has been doing.
Last edited:
RamZar
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You can get the LionSteel TM1 Micarta Handles Satin Blade for just $228.95 shipped from KnifeWorks. That's a lot of value there.
http://www.knifeworks.com/lionsteeltm1micartahandlessatinblade.aspx#.VGAr-4o76c0
I'm surprised about the SR-1 Al test failures. I use SR-2 Al for semi-hard duty and it has held up well except for staining on the Sleipner blade.
Certainly, the test results won't happen with the SR-1 Ti.
SR-1 Ti with Damascus is actually a great combo.
Wish AlSpine had materialized as planned before 2014 SHOT Show.
I know LionSteel has capacity issues.
Definitely need more folders in premium stainless steel like M390.
http://www.knifeworks.com/lionsteeltm1micartahandlessatinblade.aspx#.VGAr-4o76c0
I'm surprised about the SR-1 Al test failures. I use SR-2 Al for semi-hard duty and it has held up well except for staining on the Sleipner blade.
Certainly, the test results won't happen with the SR-1 Ti.
SR-1 Ti with Damascus is actually a great combo.
Wish AlSpine had materialized as planned before 2014 SHOT Show.
I know LionSteel has capacity issues.
Definitely need more folders in premium stainless steel like M390.
molletta
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Pro-Hunter is made from Lionsteel for Fox.
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Artifice: Thank you very much for your post, I really appreciate.
Some answers:
- TM1: it is available the Micarta handle, it is the cheapest version of this family
- Sr1 and TS-1 Titanium have Solid handle. It is impossible for us to produce these versions at lower prices. Milling the Titanium it is not easy, produce a Solid Ti handle is very difficult.
- ENKI and Legion from KR were made by LionSteel
- FOX Pro Hunter designed by Molletta are produced by LionSteel
- SR1A The video helps to confirm me some things. As written in all LionSteel warrante table-test destroy the knife and it is not covered by warranty. It is also very dangerous, if it is not well done can cause serious damage to the hand of the user. Please do not try to copy this video. Folding knives, also the strong one, MUST be used like folding knives. If you need to make strong work like the one you see in this video you must use a fixed blade. It is very nice to see where a folding knife can arrive, but we have to teach to the users which is the right way to use any tool. Anyway for LionSteel this video helps a lot to understand the problems of the knife and try to develope it.
I write again: Please do not try to copy this test, could be very DANGEROUS for the user.
- tiSpine Aluminum: it is not in production, I do not think that I will produce it.
- steel: we are introducing the M390 in the next folding knife.
Some answers:
- TM1: it is available the Micarta handle, it is the cheapest version of this family
- Sr1 and TS-1 Titanium have Solid handle. It is impossible for us to produce these versions at lower prices. Milling the Titanium it is not easy, produce a Solid Ti handle is very difficult.
- ENKI and Legion from KR were made by LionSteel
- FOX Pro Hunter designed by Molletta are produced by LionSteel
- SR1A The video helps to confirm me some things. As written in all LionSteel warrante table-test destroy the knife and it is not covered by warranty. It is also very dangerous, if it is not well done can cause serious damage to the hand of the user. Please do not try to copy this video. Folding knives, also the strong one, MUST be used like folding knives. If you need to make strong work like the one you see in this video you must use a fixed blade. It is very nice to see where a folding knife can arrive, but we have to teach to the users which is the right way to use any tool. Anyway for LionSteel this video helps a lot to understand the problems of the knife and try to develope it.
I write again: Please do not try to copy this test, could be very DANGEROUS for the user.
- tiSpine Aluminum: it is not in production, I do not think that I will produce it.
- steel: we are introducing the M390 in the next folding knife.
RamZar
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Sometimes you NEED a stainless steel fixed blade and Bohler N690 is great. Even better for humid and salty areas is Bohler N680 which replaces a lot of carbon with nitrogen and very rust resistance. Fairly easy to sharpen both but they're not powdered steel like Bohler's M390 and Elmax.
In addition to Fox Pro-Hunter does LionSteel also make the Fox Persian for Fox Knives?
Fox Pro-Hunter (4.25" N690)
Fox Persian (4.625" N690)
LionSteel M2 (3.54" D2)
LionSteel M3 (4.13" Niolox)
Last edited:
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No, we are not the producer of Fox Persian
molletta
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What would I like to see? Well, I own 4 knives made by Lionsteel. What I would like to see is for you to convince DPx to put a steel insert on the lock bar of the HEST/F. Please!
I would also like to see a clip point or more pointy blade on either the sr1 or sr2 folders.
I got a Tispine at a great price and love the knife. The blade shape and length are perfect and the machined texture is amazing. I love to carry this knife on my day off. It is one knife I look at and would not change anything.
I would also like to see a clip point or more pointy blade on either the sr1 or sr2 folders.
I got a Tispine at a great price and love the knife. The blade shape and length are perfect and the machined texture is amazing. I love to carry this knife on my day off. It is one knife I look at and would not change anything.