Who makes good locks (I know you've seen 'em apart)?

Bungwrench

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STR,

I don't know if you can answer this here or not. I know you have mentioned a couple times that certain companies make good locks and that we would sometimes be surprised at the small amount of steel holding a blade open if we could see the insides.

I have made a few assumptions after reading some of your posts.

*Spyderco, and Cold Steel make good lock back knives and/or good front lock knives.

*I also figure that most frame locks are good locks.

*I figure that the Axis lock is good on most Benchmade knives.


I wonder, would you be able to tell me what locks you've seen that you've been surprised by? Either the poor quality or poor amount of steel etc?

Do Benchmade and Buck make good lock back or front lock knives?

Are liner locks pretty much all over the place?

If you cannot mention companies I understand. Just say so and I'll email you and ask instead.
 
Well, I will focus on the good ones. One thing I've learned in my old age is that when you say anything negative about a company or person, especially publically its a good way to get black balled, spoken of badly by others you don't even know both privately and publically and basically put yourself in a bad way if not get yourself sued for defimation of character or something.

Without getting into specifics I would test out any liner lock thouroughly before trusting it. Kershaw in my opinion makes the finest production liner locks available by the way. Frame locks typically are much more reliable, usually stronger, and also just better all around with the lock side exposed to get your hand and fingers in there behind it to support it. One of the best things about frame and liner locking knives is that you can readily see how the lock is performing or not performing.

Good lock backs? You know I like lockbacks best of all. Seeing the insides of many Spyderco and Cold Steel knives I know that a very very high % of these are going to be very good reliable, strong well designed locks. Having seen the insides of many other brands over the years I do have feelings about some that are less than high praise that I personally would not own because an unusual % seem less than trustworthy to me but I'm not going there publically for all the reasons above and more. :D

Anytime you purchase a lockback folder that comes apart its a good idea to take it apart and see just how much lock you are trusting your fingers to. When you can't take it apart you are really trusting that the company or the maker is doing a good job on their end keeping up with quality control, quality designs and that the end line user is getting a product that will not fail them, perhaps causing serious injury if it does.

I don't own or trust cheap lockbacks. EDIT: I try to not own too many cheaply made crap of any lock style. There are exceptions like the Byrd line, some of the lesser expensive BenchMades, some of the new frame locking Mantis knives made in China, among a few others I think are worthy of some trust.

Axis locks, ball locks, the compression lock like seen in the Para Military are not full proof but as close to perfection as humans have come to date I think. All of these and the take off designs of them are very strong, very reliable trustworthy locks. I have seen many Para Military knives with vertical movement to them after hard use but you know what? The locks still hold up and do their job securing your hand reliably and strong as it should be.

In my experience once an axis lock or ball lock fails it will continue to do so until adjustment is made to correct it. It happens so infrequently though that its basically a non issue.

One other thing that is easily missed when looking at folders is the entire system as a whole. I was just talking about this on another forum.

Many focus on the lock wanting the heaviest duty lock they can find and never look at the rest of the folder system when shopping. Then they get the knife and find out the stop pin is a 3/32 size, and that the cut out of the lock relief where it bends to spring it is so thin its about like a sheet of paper, or that the pivot may appear large and heavy duty like the bull pivots seen in Emerson or Strider knives which are the real deal, but that the one you thought was also a real deal is actually a #2 size with a big head on it to fool you and nothing to back that up on the inside. You have to look at the whole of the system to judge the knife as good or bad not just one component of it. If the knife has a super duty lock and 1/16" brass pin construction everywhere else guess what? It ain't super duty folks!

STR
 
Thanks Steve. That answers a lot, and I respect your holding back on saying anything bad. You don't need to say the bad as long as you say the good. ;)

I appreciate it. :)
 
No problem. Speaking again of lockbacks. I read many posts about lock give or slight vertical movement or the ability to make the blade move slightly downward when locked like its a bad thing. The truth is its not going to have much to do with when the lock fails or not though if the lock design and the company are solid. Slight movement does not necessairly indicate it was made wrong or that its even faulty at all with a lockback folder. Excessive is bad in my opinion, and I'd say excessive is 1/2 mm movement up or down or more. If less its probably ok because the more you look at lockbacks the more you will see that the majority of them do have some slight give in them when locked open. But again the trust thing is hard for some.

Even on the companies I love and trust I have seen some less than good ones and even been known to tweak them to give the user a bit more metal to metal contact on more than one occasion if I think its needed.

EDIT: AUG, 13 2007. Adding these for reference links. http://spyderco.com/forums/showpost.php?p=365151&postcount=8

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4814339&postcount=25

STR
 
STR's got it :p

/cheer

My $0.02: The best linerlocks I've ever seen are the USA-made ones from Spyderco. And if you know me at all, that's saying A LOT.

I used to like framelocks a lot, but I've found that they still generally have the same problems as linerlocks, just that the problems are hidden better.

-j
 
Thanks for understanding.

If you want a list of my favorite here is a partial list.

In lockbacks:

I like the Spyderco 83mm Manix and its what I'd go for as the ideal heavy duty folder of this style and also the Cold Steel Ultimate Hunter which is another fastastically built lockback folder with a heavy duty construction.

For medium heavy duty I like the Spyderco Native or the Cold Steel GunSite folder, both of which I find to be appealing to me in different ways and both with locks I've had the chance to see the insides of to be impressed with.

Light/Medium duty lockbacks are the biggest list. I like a lot of various brands here but my top faves are most always a Spyderco of some kind. Right now the Calypso III is tops even though I personally rate it to be above light duty really and probably more likely a medium/heavy on occasion knife. Size wise its what is usually associated with light duty I think and I find it appealing because you can carry a medium duty knife in a light duty size package I guess.

I've always liked the Calypso Jr. also and the Jess Horn folder and the Al Mar ultra light is quite nice also for a light duty smallish folder.

Liner locks. I only care for a few of these really and am probably more picky here than any other knives I carry.

I have two early Emerson knives, both 1998 model Specwar folders with the thicker locks and liner that I like and have used a lot. You rarely see them anymore though.

I like the JunkYardDog II by Kershaw as tops in the liner locks currently. Its a super knife in my opinion.

Next and the only other on my list would have to be the Kershaw Blur I have.

Frame locks.

I like a lot of frame locks. Many more than I can mention in one post I'm sure. I like and use a Storm II by Kershaw quite often. I am also quite fond of the Groove and the S2 by CRKT for inexpensive choices.

For a more expensive smaller frame lock I like the Leeks and knives like the Spyderco Salsa ti frame locking compression lock which is another fine little folder if you can still find it.

All of these seemed to be very high quality nicer folders for the money when they were available to me and I used the tar out of them to test them learning that they can be trusted and that they are built quite well.

Higher cost frame lock folders, I like the large Sebenza best and consider it to be probably the best engineered folder of this style made followed by the Zero Tolerance 301 and 302 folder which I think are probably the two finest frame locks ever offered in a production model period although all of these are far larger than I'd ever carry I think. The Camillus CudaMaxx is another super built frame lock that has everything about it done right but again far larger than is practical for this knife user.

Axis locks. I really really like the HK 14200, 14205 and 14210 best of all that I've owned but also the Griptilians with the opening hole blades and the Doug Ritter RSK Griptilian is very nice. As far as a size and a balanced system that comes together to form a perfect folder it doesn't get much better than any of these in my opinion.

I like the Dodo and its really the only ball lock folder I've ever had that I kept. However the D'Allara is nice but a bit thick for my tastes overall really which is why I got rid of mine. The ball lock is a great design though and super strong when the ball engages as it should. I can say the same for the axis, arc, and Cold Steel's version the Ultra Lock. All of these are the best locks ever devised I think.

I have always liked the Para Military and the compression lock design for strength and reliability too and had three but never kept any of them. I'd love to see the Para in a lockback personally because I just love the blade. I just have not taken to the lock personally but its a very strong well thought out design that works also.

Actually if the Para Military and Military were offered by Spyderco in a .125 frame lock I'd have one of each because of how much I love the blades of both folders but the Millie again is far larger than I find practical for daily carry.

STR
 
Thanks for the additional info STR. It's always nice to hear stuff like this from someone who has taken many apart.

:thumbup:
 
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