The Civilian seems to be one of, if not the, most expensive of the Spyderco models. Why is this? I didn't think it could be the steel, other Spyderco models with GIN-1 like the Baby Goddard and the Solo are rather inexpensive. I've only handled the knife once and I don't pretend to know if it's worth the money or not, but I was just wondering what accounts for it's cost?
Why is the Civilian so expensive?
- Thread starter Soloman
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I'll take a chance here until one of the knowledgable folks wades in...
my guess would have to be that the blade requires alot of detailed grind-work and it is made in very small quantities when compared to the other models. This can raise costs of production in two different (yet significant) ways.
"Any fool can guess...only a lucky fool gets it right" anon.
my guess would have to be that the blade requires alot of detailed grind-work and it is made in very small quantities when compared to the other models. This can raise costs of production in two different (yet significant) ways.
"Any fool can guess...only a lucky fool gets it right" anon.
I believe it has more to do with the fact that Spyderco makes knives intended to be functional first and foremost. Some functions are widely advertised and some are not. The Civilians function and purpose is not one which is appropriate to be widely advertised. Those who need it can and will find it. The cost may be a disincentive to discourage frivolous purchases, or may be because of low production runs. Sal may want to tell us a little more about the cost.
This is my understanding of what I see on the Spyderco website and what I have heard Sal say here on the forums. But again, this is just my take on it!
[This message has been edited by Bob Irons (edited 13 July 1999).]
This is my understanding of what I see on the Spyderco website and what I have heard Sal say here on the forums. But again, this is just my take on it!
[This message has been edited by Bob Irons (edited 13 July 1999).]
Sal Glesser
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Interesting question. Spyderco pretty much operates on fixed margins. The MRSP of the model is directly based on the cost of manufacturing. There are some exceptions for one reason or another (ususally a lower price and lower margin maintained to introduce a new item like the Native). The Civilian is not one of them.
The blade grind (my fault) had to meet specific requirements and is very difficult to grind. Check with your favorite custom maker and see if they can build one and what they'd charge. It is a difficult job and required expertise. Lock strength requirements are very high (well over the 400 inch/lbs "A" category). General attention to reliable function has focus. Fairly small production. Shipping our G-10 to Seki. Special attention to heat treat because of the shape of the tip. The cost of the 3 patents on the model, etc.
The Civilian is a service that Spyderco provides for those "good guys" that may need one. Simply because of respect for the need. Production is limited to no more than 250 pieces per month. We generally promote this only to LEOs on all levels.
sal
The blade grind (my fault) had to meet specific requirements and is very difficult to grind. Check with your favorite custom maker and see if they can build one and what they'd charge. It is a difficult job and required expertise. Lock strength requirements are very high (well over the 400 inch/lbs "A" category). General attention to reliable function has focus. Fairly small production. Shipping our G-10 to Seki. Special attention to heat treat because of the shape of the tip. The cost of the 3 patents on the model, etc.
The Civilian is a service that Spyderco provides for those "good guys" that may need one. Simply because of respect for the need. Production is limited to no more than 250 pieces per month. We generally promote this only to LEOs on all levels.
sal
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One slightly off-topic question. Why isn't the Civilian on Spyderco's webpage? Just curious.
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Just because I talk to myself doesn't mean I'm crazy. What's wrong with getting a second opinion?
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Just because I talk to myself doesn't mean I'm crazy. What's wrong with getting a second opinion?
Sal Glesser
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Ken - This is with worldwide distribution. The number has been working out OK. Fluctuates between 175 & 250 per month.
Roadrunner - Perhaps it is a strange position. The Civilian can be a very nasty opponent. We produce the model because there is a real need for an effective defensive blade in certain LEO or related activities. We hope that no one ever has to use one for it's intended design. Should use be necessary, we would hope that it protected and served it's owner well.
Spyderco does not want to push large volumes of this model. We'll make our money on the Enduras & Delicas, etc. We occassionaly run a promotion to various LEO agencies to let them know it's available.
sal
Roadrunner - Perhaps it is a strange position. The Civilian can be a very nasty opponent. We produce the model because there is a real need for an effective defensive blade in certain LEO or related activities. We hope that no one ever has to use one for it's intended design. Should use be necessary, we would hope that it protected and served it's owner well.
Spyderco does not want to push large volumes of this model. We'll make our money on the Enduras & Delicas, etc. We occassionaly run a promotion to various LEO agencies to let them know it's available.
sal
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Thanks for the clarification Sal. I see your point, especially in today's society.
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Just because I talk to myself doesn't mean I'm crazy. What's wrong with getting a second opinion?
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Just because I talk to myself doesn't mean I'm crazy. What's wrong with getting a second opinion?
Well now I've got to have one!
I used to carry an old model Police SpyderEdge for self-defense, when I lived in the big scary city. Then I moved to a nice quiet suburb. Some low-life broke into my house and stole my knives.
But now I have all new knives.
[This message has been edited by Ewok (edited 06 August 1999).]
[This message has been edited by Ewok (edited 06 August 1999).]
As long as we're on the topic, why is the G-10 Civilian more expensive than the TufRam? Does this represent a lowering of the proce on old models to clear out stock? I can't imagine the G-10 having a higher cost-to-manufacture than coated aluminum with Kraton inserts (but what do I know...)
-Drew
-Drew
I just purchased a civilian with G-10 scales and I am pleased.I have been carrying it daily since I got it.What a great piece.I have no doubt that it would serve exceptionally for its intended purpose.I would like to get one of the aluminum handled ones as well if I can find one.
Sal Glesser
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Drew - We're shipping our G10 to Seki. The Japanese made G10 wasn't acceptable for this model. G10 requires and is more difficult to grind and finish. The aluminum version was stamped very close to net. G10 has to be lazer cut and hand or machine bevelled and "cleaned up". It is also dangerous to work with and requires special masks, etc.
sal
sal
Okee-doke. I was remembering what you had said about the difficult surface finishing required for TufRam coating and extrapolating from that.
Also interesting to note that the aluminum Civies haven't got the typical chamfer of most metal Spydercos (including the TufRam Police, if memory serves) but just a light slope ending with the handle edges being ground clean and flush after the coating is applied, something I've only seen on aluminum Crickets (not sloped, but edges ground after coating). That must shave off some cost versus chamfering and then finishing. Feels perfectly good and looks distinctive, too.
Anyhow, thanks again for the explanation. One friend in particular had been bugging me about that, and I was at a loss. I'll convey the info
-Drew
Also interesting to note that the aluminum Civies haven't got the typical chamfer of most metal Spydercos (including the TufRam Police, if memory serves) but just a light slope ending with the handle edges being ground clean and flush after the coating is applied, something I've only seen on aluminum Crickets (not sloped, but edges ground after coating). That must shave off some cost versus chamfering and then finishing. Feels perfectly good and looks distinctive, too.
Anyhow, thanks again for the explanation. One friend in particular had been bugging me about that, and I was at a loss. I'll convey the info
-Drew
I picked up an aluminum Civilian a few months back. A feature not discussed here yet is the inclusion of the neat little zipped soft case. A minor factor in the overall price scheme of the Civilian.
I wish they were available with more Spydie knives. Retail, judging from those carried by A.G. Russell would be around $5. Anyone else concur that these are desireable????
-=[Bob]=-
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-=[Bob]=-
I did NOT escape from the institution! They gave me a day pass!
I wish they were available with more Spydie knives. Retail, judging from those carried by A.G. Russell would be around $5. Anyone else concur that these are desireable????
-=[Bob]=-
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-=[Bob]=-
I did NOT escape from the institution! They gave me a day pass!