WIP :Water filtration dust collector, AKA: The Dust Bong

ron_m80 said:
You are aware that with some engineering, you can use a velocity change and gravity to drop out the particulate in the case of metal and wood, without the added horsepower requirements of making bubbles right?

Funny concept though.
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You mean like just put a bucket underneath the grinder , very unoriginal .
 
Glad to see you are taking the inlet tube out of the water.

Other tips:
As Nick said, use smooth tubing...3-4" PVC works fine.....and smooth radius turns. PVC comes in 90 degree Ells as well as larger radius swept Ells. The curved ones will work better. There are special hoses for dust collectors with fairly smooth inner walls. Once the debris gets trapped in the water trap, the air will have much less particulate and won't be getting dirt in the hose, but turbulence created by rough walls can slow down the air flow, and make the unit much less efficient.

One big problem is your source of suction. A shop vac is not really made to run for long periods, and is not the best choice for a dust collector system.The noise level alone would make me not use one. Also, the reduction in duct size from a 3-4" duct to a 1.5-2" vac input will greatly reduce the air volume, and create a pressure drop in the duct. A blower from a HF dust collector will work much better. Toss the bag and keep the blower. They are often for sale on Craig's List and the Trader papers.

There are a couple ways to deal with your desire to make this a constant air filter -
Change the shop vac to a two speed blower setup. That way you can run it slow when not grinding, and fast when making sparks and dust.
Or, have two blowers. One should be a real blower as described in the previous paragraph, and the second a smaller vent fan box ( like a bathroom fan). Place a selector gate valve in the air duct to switch from one to the other. Make the bigger blower the one with a straight shot down the duct.

In either case, there should be nothing...repeat NOTHING... in the duct path from the pickup port to the water tank.
Place all air movement devices after the trap.

The best way to have a good spark/dust collector as well as a good shop air filter is to have them as separate units. You can purchase a dedicated shop air filter from Woodcraft or other suppliers that constantly filters the shop air.
Right now they are on sale for less than $300. They really work well.
http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/2004673/7332/Jet-Air-Filtration-System-Model-AFS1000B.aspx
It runs quiet.

A $300 air filter plus a $100-200 dust collector blower and $100 in duct/hoses/fittings/tanks will total about $500-600. That is a good amount...but it will keep your shop and your lungs much cleaner - and that makes it a good deal. If you have other family and pets that breathes the same air as you do, the price shrinks greatly in comparison to the value.
 
duffy99 said:
You mean like just put a bucket underneath the grinder , very unoriginal .
Click to expand...

Yes unoriginal.

drawing1k.jpg
 
I know , i know it's just hard to let go to something you've invested time and $ to. I saw a 350 cfm exhaust fan on sale for $50 should I snatch it up? It would be perfect for the 24/7 blower I think. Get another bucket and have one dedicated active and one for when I'm grinding . I know I'm still not buying the commercial product but this could be close to as effective. 2 systems .


bladsmth said:
Glad to see you are taking the inlet tube out of the water.

Other tips:
As Nick said, use smooth tubing...3-4" PVC works fine.....and smooth radius turns. PVC comes in 90 degree Ells as well as larger radius swept Ells. The curved ones will work better. There are special hoses for dust collectors with fairly smooth inner walls. Once the debris gets trapped in the water trap, the air will have much less particulate and won't be getting dirt in the hose, but turbulence created by rough walls can slow down the air flow, and make the unit much less efficient.

One big problem is your source of suction. A shop vac is not really made to run for long periods, and is not the best choice for a dust collector system.The noise level alone would make me not use one. Also, the reduction in duct size from a 3-4" duct to a 1.5-2" vac input will greatly reduce the air volume, and create a pressure drop in the duct. A blower from a HF dust collector will work much better. Toss the bag and keep the blower. They are often for sale on Craig's List and the Trader papers.

There are a couple ways to deal with your desire to make this a constant air filter -
Change the shop vac to a two speed blower setup. That way you can run it slow when not grinding, and fast when making sparks and dust.
Or, have two blowers. One should be a real blower as described in the previous paragraph, and the second a smaller vent fan box ( like a bathroom fan). Place a selector gate valve in the air duct to switch from one to the other. Make the bigger blower the one with a straight shot down the duct.

In either case, there should be nothing...repeat NOTHING... in the duct path from the pickup port to the water tank.
Place all air movement devices after the trap.

The best way to have a good spark/dust collector as well as a good shop air filter is to have them as separate units. You can purchase a dedicated shop air filter from Woodcraft or other suppliers that constantly filters the shop air.
Right now they are on sale for less than $300. They really work well.
http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/2004673/7332/Jet-Air-Filtration-System-Model-AFS1000B.aspx
It runs quiet.

A $300 air filter plus a $100-200 dust collector blower and $100 in duct/hoses/fittings/tanks will total about $500-600. That is a good amount...but it will keep your shop and your lungs much cleaner - and that makes it a good deal. If you have other family and pets that breathes the same air as you do, the price shrinks greatly in comparison to the value.
Click to expand...
 
Also I don't have $600 right now so a proper system in the near future when funds are available and this in the mean time.
 
I bought a BIONAIRE Air purifier with permenent filters and 4 speeds today, that will deal with the passive dust collection/ purification. It has a 3 year warranty and my shop is quite small so it should handle the amount of air in the room. I plan to vacuum the filters as part of my regular clean-up . This is the active dust collector now, only thing I need to add is a plastic layer between the water and the out take of air and of course better ducting to handle sparks . I got some gorilla tape too :) I think this will work .

 
duffy99 said:
Also I don't have $600 right now so a proper system in the near future when funds are available and this in the mean time.
Click to expand...

You can get dust collectors for under $200 lie this one at Busy Bee Tools and a few just over the $200 mark. They all seem to have a Db rating of around 65. I know I will be picking one up soon. Good news is there is a Busy Bee in Edmonton:thumbup:
 
unky_gumbi said:
You can get dust collectors for under $200 lie this one at Busy Bee Tools and a few just over the $200 mark. They all seem to have a Db rating of around 65. I know I will be picking one up soon. Good news is there is a Busy Bee in Edmonton:thumbup:
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If you only want the blower and not the bags, you can often find old blowers from furnace install companies - when they pull the old ones.
big blowers on 1/3 or 1/4 HP motors
 
I built the last diagram, the fan doesn't really add much maybe a little more suction power but ya it's loud and does work with the shop vac running . I'm going to ditch the fan and use it for something else or add a blower or a 350 cfm window exhaust fan that I saw for $50 I don't know if an extra 230 cfm is worth it or not . Or I could buy the Busy Bee one but I heard people had problems with sparks and it . On another subject is their a substitute for ITC-100 that is less than $60 a pint plus shipping, could I thin out 3000f cement and use that instead on the ceramic wool. Just spent $120 on a PID and still have to buy a blower for the new forge at some point. I'm always looking for furnace blowers on kijiji.Also how could a person remove a small amount of steel from a 3/4" hex bolt and still keep it round ?
 
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If you use your dust bong with the busy bee dust collector there should be no problem with sparks, but you may have to step up to a metal container. Over time you could add in conduit to the system and shut off gates so you can have separate collection points sort of like a central vac system. You could add in one flex hose to try and grab as much ambient dust from the room from the area you are working in.

A lathe is great at turning down things and keeping them round:p but the poor mans solution is a drill and grinder, but round is not guaranteed.
 
Be most careful when using dust bag types. Fires are not uncommon with these, I've been told. Frank
 
Eyes, ears and respiratory protection are paramount. Looks like you're having fun engineering some important safety equipment. A filtering mask of some sort when you are grinding is still important too. Be careful with PVC and plastic adhesive tapes. They ARE flammable! Folks have posted about mishaps with them; like the thread this photo came from.

fire2.JPG

I just had some unwelcome excitement...
 
duffy99 said:
HI Duffy so are you saying that if I was to use soapy water in my dust collector you think the better option would probably be using something like tide ? I mean dont people usually state that laundry detergent defoams ? so if I was going to go with the soapy water dust collector would your idea to me be right now go to wall mart and find the biggest container of all or other brand laundry detergent that I can find but maybe only use a cap full ? any ideas please thank you
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Welcome Porong Kings. This is a 13-year-old thread. Long dead. Original concept was flawed. Many more current threads on building a dust collector system with a spark trap and a dust deputy with a large shop vac or blower powering it..
Fill out your profile so we know where you live and something about you.
 
Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith said:
Duffy,
Here are the engineering issues I see.

The setup you have made is basically a large atomizer. It will remove all the water from the tank as it becomes water mist. How fast it empties I can't say, but at the air volumes you are passing through the water, it is going to get sucked out. Each bubble passing through the tank will take a little water with it. Bubbles+air volume+dirt = foam. Someone suggested adding dish soap.....that would be unwise ,unless you want to have a room full of foam. I did research in my chemist days on defoamers to keep the foam down in pulp tanks, and I can absolutely say that you don't want any dish soap in the water of any bubble tank. Adding a defoamer like they use in carpet cleaners, would be a better choice........ if that was the only issue.

Now, where is all that moist air going.....through the shop vac.....and into your shop. You will be running a high volume humidifier in the shop. I foresee high humidity, rust, and mildew problems if this is used very often. I realize that in Alberta, humidity isn't a normal problem, but we southern cousins can attest that it can cause havoc with your tools and steel.

While passing through the shop vac, the wet air will saturate the filter, making the shop vac labor much harder to draw any air, and thus reducing the air flow as well as the vac life.

I also foresee the metal screen filter getting clogged up. It doesn't look like it is placed where it can be easily cleared .


The solution is a minor change to the inlet pipe on the tank. Make the inlet come about 6" from the tank bottom. Place only about 3" of water in the tank. This way the metal dust ,sparks, and heavy particles get trapped in the water, but the main air volume goes up toward the outlet and through the shop vac's fine particle filter. The air will be perfectly clean on exit from the shop vac. The box fan becomes unnecessary this way, too. You really don't want anything in the air path before the water trap . Adding a teaspoon of dish soap will be a good thing in this setup, as it will lower the surface tension of the water and make it catch the particles better. Dump the tank daily at the end of each days grinding.
I would delete the screen filter,too.
Click to expand...
So...just normal bongs then?
 
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