Would you stake your life on a Mora?

[longbow50]

I sure am glad that there are people out there that like to test their knives to the breaking point. That way, I don't have to.

 

[loki67]

I sure am glad that there are people out there that like to test their knives to the breaking point. That way, I don't have to.

The problem with testing to failure is alot people assume if a blade is not able to take insane amounts of abuse it's not able to preform simple tasks such as poking badguys.

But I'll bet a bowhunter knows better.

 

[loki67]

The “Collaboration” between Floro Fighting Systems and Iisakki Jarvenpaa, has developed a model specifically suited for the “Reverse / Edge-In Grip”.

The handle is made of the traditional “Curly Birch”, and the blade made of AISI 420 Stainless Steel; tempered to 57-58 Rockwell Scale.

There are 2 blade lengths to choose from. 10cm (4 inches) and 15 cm (6 inches). With a handle length of 11cm (4 ¼ inches). It comes in a sturdy leather sheath.

Other than Raymond Floro's knife having the blade optimized for his fighting style it it a very basic traditional pattern.

Here's a little more info about Mr. Floro. http://www.stick-and-knife.com/articles.html

 

[longbow50]

I've seen this knife before. Interesting concept I guess. I mean, they are probably the experts here, but I think that I would prefer the cutting edge facing my opponent. More chance of inflicting a mortal wound with glancing blows and slicing/dicing my way to disarming my attacker would seem more effective as well.

 

[loki67]

I've seen this knife before. Interesting concept I guess. I mean, they are probably the experts here, but I think that I would prefer the cutting edge facing my opponent. More chance of inflicting a mortal wound with glancing blows and slicing/dicing my way to disarming my attacker would seem more effective as well.

True enough on the edge out vs in, a knife is a knife and you and I both know you put the edge on what you're cutting when you're cutting. And as much as the uber-tacticool sharpened prybar fighting knife exponents want to deny it it's just that simple.
My real point is Ray Floro is an expert, and he seems to think the Mora is a fine knife for defense.
That and I'd probably buy one if the blade was facing the right way as it's a dead sexy knife.

 

[longbow50]

:thumbup: Yup, that it is.

 

[KJ. Moulton]

Cucharadedragon,

I can give you two tid-bits re: any blade used for combat/defense.

My knife fighting instructor put it this way - "Any slob can carve another human being into a quivering mass of hamburger, but, an expert knows how to use the point."

Napoleon Bonaparte is said to have stood upon a balcony watching his cavalry troops ride off to battle, repeatedly shouting instructions for their sabre work, "The point! The point!"

Any blade of 2 inches or longer can reach vital bits, and a good sharp blade, used for rapid and repeated thrust or ice pick reverse thrust stabs doesn't have to be heavy to do it's job.

Know your targets on two-legged varmints and simple avoidance for most four legged beasties will be adequate. Usually a critter attack, especially a big cat, will be provoked because the shortest escape route for them is to run over you. You aren't high on most carnivore's menu ala' carte lists. Children on the other hand can be small enough to be tempting as morsels to the toothy and fanged. Stay alert and keep the little ones close and most of your problems are strictly academic debate stuff for fireside chats with your friends and family.

Good luck and keep your steel sharp,

KJ. Moulton
"Conquer yourself first, all else will follow."

 

[KJ. Moulton]

Loki67,

Mr. Floro isn't in such bad company, as a trained sword fighter (Rapier & Katana) I have stumbled across several types of fighting styles that use the reversed edge approach, but the most famous I have found was none other than James Bowie himself.

Bowie was trained in fencing and when he adapted that training to the shorter, heavier blade which bears his name, he often wound up using the blade with a modified fencing grip, edge up or toward the thumb. He would parry with the spine of the blade, (even designing some of his knives with a brass inset in the spine to help it catch an opponent's blade) and after parrying offline he would then close and use the point and edge, frequently in reverse cut mode.

There may be nothing new under the sun after all.

KJ. Moulton
"Conquer yourself first, all else will follow."

 

[Andros]

I don’t know if many on this forum think about this but when ever I head out into the woods, besides making firesticks, building shelter, or food prep I always think of my knife as backup defense against all of the mangy creatures that would seek to do me or my wife and children harm…whether 2 or 4 legged. I have decided to get a Mora (meaning the plastic handled variety…Craftsman, Clipper, etc.) because of all of the opinions on this forum but I was a little concerned if this thin bladed knife would be of any value in this defensive capacity. Now I know that any sharp pointy object can serve in a defensive role but this doesn’t mean that you would stake your life on it. I am worried that if faced with a mountain lion attack or any other threat that the Mora blade would break too easily and thus be worthless. I am just looking for honest outdoorsy type opinions of the Mora in this backup role not advice on tactical knives to carry in the woods. I have plenty of knives that would serve that purpose, ie Crewman, AFSK, Recon Tanto, etc. but I am really interested in what you all think about something like the Clipper or Craftsman.

Let's take one step at a time. The Mora's are good for cutting sausage so, they are good for cutting through meat. I would find it very interesting if either a Craftsman or a Clipper was to break due to the fact that they were used for stadding or cutting up a person. So, for human beings, I believe you are on the safe side with either model PROVIDED you have the knowledge and the will to use them properly, i.e. you have received adequate training plus you have reached the mental stage at which you won't have a problem using a knife on human beings.

With mountain lions I would say forget it. Why? First of all you won't know the mountain lion is there until its teeth are deep in your neck / throat and by then you will be already on your way to heaven. But, let's just say that you see it and you are cornerned. I am telling you that there is no way under this sun you will stop it with such a knife. I would say that the absolute minimum you will need will ba a Ka-bar. If you ever use a knife on anything living you will see that even in case you cut it really deep the reaction remains for quite some time to be able to harm you or even kill you. A mountain lion possesses strength that goes far and beyond what we humans know. Even if you either cut it or stab it, unless you use a large bowie knife and the hit is very well placed, it will cut you up before you know it. The speed at which a mountain lion will perform its attack is such that you won't even see it coming and while even if it is hurt it will fight you back, if you are cut by its claws you will most likely pass out due to severe bleeding.

As for brown bear, I think it's better if we just skip this issue since I really believe your chances are absolutely ZERO if you are armed with any Mora against them.

In case you cannot carry a firearm, I suggest you go with either a quality bowie knife properly made to be used even for backslashing or with a through hardened SWAMP RAT BATTLE RAT. I asked a knife maker to make me a bowie knife in its simplest original form and provided him with its characteristics. Now, I think that if you hit any animal (at least up to 400 lbs.) be it either 2 or 4-legged with this beauty even once, it will die before it knows it. BUT, this means that you will be given the time to acurately perform the hit. I also have three SWAMP RAT BATTLE RAT's that are equipped with the Penetrator Tip. Very fast in the hand, extremely sharp and capable of going through the thickest hide as if it's not there.

Then again about 2 years ago I read, I think in Knives Illustrated magazine, a story about someone who managed to kill a black bear with his Buck 110. The guy, in his 60's, was out deer hunting and when he hit the deer wanted to skin it. So, he put down his rifle, took out his folder and reached for the dead animal. This is when he realized he had a "company" and his only weapon at hand was his Buck 110. In the battle that followed the bear mangled him really ugly but he managed to hit it in the throat and sever the carotid artery. Now, would you say that a Buck 110 is a knife suitable for bear defence?

 

[Andros]

It's a razorsharp knife with a 4" blade. Simplely put, it will do if you will do.
The Finns used/use the Puukko for everything, this includes killing attackers.

Puukkos are very good knives and they come in various lengths. Still though, I don't think that a 4" blade would be the ideal blade for dispatching someone. Of course, a 4" razor sharp blade can easily incapacitate a person with a well placed cut or stab.

 

[Nord]

I would find it very interesting if either a Craftsman or a Clipper was to break due to the fact that they were used for stadding or cutting up a person.

If you stab it with full force and hit a rib or some hard piece of gear or clothing it could probably break. If the blade gets stuck in a body during tumbling around on the ground and much sideways pressure is put on the blade, it could also break I think. They have thin blades and many of the plastic models don't have a full tang. They are not designed and made to stand extreme abuse. Moras are great knives, but not quite strong and sturdy enough to be considered reliable weapons, even if they could serve as as a useful weapon in an emergency.

 

[Triquetra]

With mountain lions I would say forget it. Why? First of all you won't know the mountain lion is there until its teeth are deep in your neck / throat and by then you will be already on your way to heaven. But, let's just say that you see it and you are cornerned. I am telling you that there is no way under this sun you will stop it with such a knife. I would say that the absolute minimum you will need will ba a Ka-bar. If you ever use a knife on anything living you will see that even in case you cut it really deep the reaction remains for quite some time to be able to harm you or even kill you. A mountain lion possesses strength that goes far and beyond what we humans know. Even if you either cut it or stab it, unless you use a large bowie knife and the hit is very well placed, it will cut you up before you know it. The speed at which a mountain lion will perform its attack is such that you won't even see it coming and while even if it is hurt it will fight you back, if you are cut by its claws you will most likely pass out due to severe bleeding.

I agree the chances are slim to nothing but not impossible. A recent post here gave an example of a gentleman who killed a mountain lion with his pocket knife after being attacked. I read another story the other day of someone who killed a black bear although I think that they jumped it from behind and began stabbing it in the neck. Granted these are more the exception than the rule but I would rather have some sort of chance than none at all. I really have no illusion about fighting wild animals, I am really trying to inquire about the intrinsic strengh of a Mora blade since most of the time where I hike I am more likely to have something like this on my belt instead of my Becker but I figure anything is better than my teeth.

 

[Andros]

If you stab it with full force and hit a rib or some hard piece of gear or clothing it could probably break. If the blade gets stuck in a body during tumbling around on the ground and much sideways pressure is put on the blade, it could also break I think. They have thin blades and many of the plastic models don't have a full tang. They are not designed and made to stand extreme abuse. Moras are great knives, but not quite strong and sturdy enough to be considered reliable weapons, even if they could serve as as a useful weapon in an emergency.

A case in which the blade gets stuck in the body would favor a thin blade because it is easier to remove due to its slim profile. A head-on collission of the tip of one of the Mora's mentioned above with a bone would most likely end up with the blade being wedged in the bone. I don't think the handle would give the knife weilder the chance to exert such a forse as to break the blade. Try it on a piece of meat. Will you experience breaking of such a blade? I do agree though that a Mora is not a knife made around the notion of SD. But cutting and piercing through meat, yes they can do it easily.
It is true though that in a stab the surounding muscles tend to provide a suction effect on the blade. So, what do you do? As Michael Janich very wisely points out, the answer is the comma cut. If you try to remove a blade from a body using sideways pressure, I am afraid that soon you will feel the other person's blade inside you.The reason is that your blade will remain clogged in his body so that means you are unarmed and deadly close to your opponent. To me, that's a no-no situation.

 

[Andros]

I agree the chances are slim to nothing but not impossible. A recent post here gave an example of a gentleman who killed a mountain lion with his pocket knife after being attacked. I read another story the other day of someone who killed a black bear although I think that they jumped it from behind and began stabbing it in the neck. Granted these are more the exception than the rule but I would rather have some sort of chance than none at all. I really have no illusion about fighting wild animals, I am really trying to inquire about the intrinsic strengh of a Mora blade since most of the time where I hike I am more likely to have something like this on my belt instead of my Becker but I figure anything is better than my teeth.

I cannot dispute any of these incidents since I have to data that show otherwise. But, let me put it you this way: you can kill an African lion with a .22LR. Hit it in the eye and that's it. Having said that, allow me to ask you this: would you take a rifle chambered for the .22LR to go after the African lion?

Of course, it has been mentioned that the best knife is the one that you have with you and I couldn't agree more with this statement but, tools (and to me a knife is first and foremost a tool) are made for certain reasons and have certain limitations. The thing is to be able to understand the limitations and know the uses of the tool you handle. If you have made your mind about tagging a Mora with you as a knife that will stand up to the rigors of SD, if need be, I think you are shooting a long shot. They are good for general camping and around the kitchen tasks. You can of course make some woodcarving with them too, but I think they stop there.

I mentioned earlier that I believe the Mora's you mentioned in the beginning of this thread will be able to cut / pierce through meat. I didn't mention though that this is the knife I would choose. If I may offer my opinion, I would say that provided you have developed a serious mindset about SD, get the best knife you can get for the purpose. Sure it will cost you much much more than any Mora but, don't you think there has to be a good reason for this? Why do you think that a Mercedes-Benz is so much more expensive than a Chevy? Is it all hype? Do you think that a Busse knife costs so much just because people want to pay for it? I own a lot of knives some less expensive some more expensive, some really rare. Believe me, you can easily tell the difference among them. You may want to ask yourself what is the value of your life and those you love? Can you place any value on it? Priceless, right? So, invest in the right equipment and invest in training and lets hope and pray you will never have to apply your knowledge. I am sure you know the old adage "If you want peace, better prepare for war".

 

[the possum]

Good Lord, the BS is getting thicker by the minute. Animal attack threads seem to bring it out...

By the way, I don't "stake my life on a Mora" or any other knife, or any other piece of equipment at all. I stake it on knowledge and skill. If I get myself into dire circumstances with a long chain of poor decisions, it ain't the knife's fault, regardless of what knife that may be.

 

[Ebbtide]

Does anyone have a link to the old guy and bear story?
An old copy of Blade perhaps?
I believe it was in a '99 or '00 issue.
IIRC he got the bear off him with the 110, but put him down with his rifle.
The part of the story where he lifts the flap of arm skin off the rifle so he could cycle the bolt sticks in my mind.

 

[iamonespfn]

thought this link was worth sharing. This guy stuck the blade in a tree and all 185 lbs of him stood on it. He says it bent a bit but didn't break.

http://thegearjunkie.com/gear-review-mora-knives

-Ron

 

[pict]

One of the practical knife tests I put my blades through is to open a green coconut with them. Green coconuts are tough and you have to apply enough force on them to cut through the thick, fibrous husk and pierce through the hard inner shell. The shell of a green coconut feels alot like fresh bone, you feel like you are cutting into someones skull.

The various moras open coconuts very well. I'll be the first to admit that I have never been attacked by a green coconut, but getting them open could very well be a matter of life and death. The worst knives that I own for this task are my big thick SPB's, they bind up. Mac

 

[Thomas Linton]

One of the practical knife tests I put my blades through is to open a green coconut with them. . . . The shell of a green coconut feels alot like fresh bone, you feel like you are cutting into someones skull.

Oh, yum!

 

[Nord]

One of the practical knife tests I put my blades through is to open a green coconut with them. Green coconuts are tough and you have to apply enough force on them to cut through the thick, fibrous husk and pierce through the hard inner shell. The shell of a green coconut feels alot like fresh bone, you feel like you are cutting into someones skull.

The various moras open coconuts very well. I'll be the first to admit that I have never been attacked by a green coconut, but getting them open could very well be a matter of life and death. The worst knives that I own for this task are my big thick SPB's, they bind up. Mac

I have destroyed a knife just like the one in your picture. The blade is very thin on this model. The KJ Eriksson ones have slightly thicker blades. Like I said before, Moras are very good knives, especially when the price is considered, but they are not unbreakable.