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- Mar 5, 1999
- Messages
- 34,096
This is a copy of Yvsa's original sharpening thread which somehow has disappeared. I
copied it from Howard's FAQ site and thanks, Howard. This is good info.
=============================================
On reflection about all the sharpening methods and such I tend to forget the khukuri is
not just a knife style that is odd to the world outside of it's borders of use, but is also
odd in it's manner of hardening.
We are used to knives that even though they may be differentially hardened have a hard
edge the full length of the blade and
point.
The khukuri with it's blade starting out dead soft from the bolster to a progressively
harder edge gradually becoming very hard
at about 58 to 62 Rockwell C long the "sweet spot" and back to a bit softer about 52 Rc
at the point.
This makes for a unique blade that is incredibly tough and hard that can maintain an
exceptional edge all along the length of it's blade under very hard use under conditions
from the field to hardwood forest!!
The people that use the khukuri tend to be very poor and need a knife that is going to do
just what the khukuri does so well.
They are not going to be filing and stoning their blades away!
I know that most, if not all of us has read Cliff Stamps Reviews on different blades and
the torture he puts the knives through.
Most of us wouldn't even consider doing our pretty knives that way. I imagine that the
use the people who are so familiar with the khukuri, being raised up with one in their
hands is even beyond what Cliff puts the knives through sometimes.
With all that said think about it for a moment and realize what you would have to do
under the conditions the Nepali people live
under or in some of the survival threads we have here. Yes you need to keep your
khukuri very sharp in order for it to do it's
work, but you also have to make it last. I think I can safely bet that under those
conditions that we are going to learn to use the khukuri in such a way as to maintain
that edge with the Least Amount Of Steel Removal!!
Long ago and in places not so far away our ancestors used all sorts of iron implements
with steel edges forged onto them.
Good Steel was precious and sometimes hard to come by! Take a scythe for instance.
The edge was maintained much the same way the khukuri is. One difference is that the
steel along the edge was not filed or honed off if it became dinged or nicked up badly.
The scythe was laid on an anvil or rock if need be and the steel was carefully pounded
back into shape. Sometimes a scythe was even sharpened in this manner. By laying it's
edge on an anvil anyone that had experience with using the blade could take a hammer
and tap tap an edge onto it. This edge could shave you! I imagine that at one time the
original edge may have been put on this way to save the precious steel.
One of the reasons I got to thinking about all this is what Uncle Bill has stated at
different times.
Quote, paraphrase: "It isn't usually to far back to the house where a file and stone for
sharpening are kept and if a khukuri
becomes dull enough that it can't be sharpened in the field, it is taken back to the house
and fixed." Unquote.
Using the scythe as an example shows that steel doesn't have to be that hard to perform
exceptionally well. However it has to
be tough. Cutting harder and harder materials means that the steel must be harder in
order not to deform.
Another good modern day example is the Ontario version of the Bagwell Bowie Knives.
It is stated in the information about these knives that they are unusually soft for a knife
of it's size. The reason being is that they are very nice "Fighting" knives and they are
designed to cut clothing and flesh.
Hitting a bone hard with one would probably ding it pretty good. The important thing is
that the knife Is Not Going to Break!!
The article or other information I read about them states that they are Not good knives
for people who are wanting a "combat" knife as they are too soft to stand up to that kind
of abuse.
I have learned to use steels, the chakma, hones And sandpaper in different ways to keep
my knives as sharp as I need or want them without filing or honing their lives away.
I have learned a lot of it right here in this forum, some of it over the last 50 some years
of having a very profound Love of knives and other edged tools.
I know that it would take some time to use up a khukuri's good ege, but remember those
150 year old khukuris still in use have
had their edges reshaped as needed and rehardened over that time span.
The knives are "Used" up Not "Honed" up.
It does take some time and a lot of practice to get where you can "steel" an edge on the
khukuri due in part to the hard "sweet
spot." Once you have that part sharp with a hone or whatever then it becomes a matter
of maintaing that edge.
Sometimes using the steel or chakma it makes the edge "feel rough" in difference to the
smooth, slick feel a hone brings.
That "rough" edge can slice paper like it wasn't there.
Watch a butcher sometime and you will see them "steeling" a blade fairly often.
They can go quite some time between sharpening on a hone just by keeping the edge
aligned properly.
I used too hone for the pure joy of running something along that already sharp edge. I
have quit that now and use a steel or
chakma instead.
Sometimes a chakma may not be as hard as it needs to be and in that case the smooth
spine of a hard knife can be used in it's
place. I can see a Huge difference when I do this sometimes!
Use different pressures and techniques until you figure out what's best and what works
for you.
All your knives will thank you by lasting a lot longer.
It doesn't take much in obtaining the tools I use in sharpening all of my knives.
These items are what I use in varying stages and depending upon the condition of the
edge that's needing sharpened. And I can
cheat by using my Grizzly belt sander, but that is seldom needed after a good edge is
established unless you badly impact it on a
hard surface. And even then the tools described below will do the job needing done.
You already have a steel in the form of the chakma or the hard back of a good knife. I
am fortunate to have a solid piece of
smooth round carbide that was used to make metal cutting tools from and mounted it in a
brass handle. A good smooth steel is
optional since you can _make do_ with the items above.
Get yourself two or three _good files_like the Nicholson Black Diamond brand in lengths of
6"-8" and 10 inches. If you only
get two then get the 6" and 8" as they are the handiest to use. Get yourself a good _file
card_ to maintain your files properly.
The best ones have a brush on the opposite side of the wire cleaner which looks
something like a wool or other textile carder.
A file with a piece of metal embedded in it will cause gougeing and eventually ruin your
file by picking up even more pieces of
metal. Take care of your files as you would any other fine cutting instument by keeping
them free of rust and insure that their
cutting edges are protected when put up. A _good file_ is invaluable in maintaining the
softer areas of a khukuri's edge.
I like the DMT duofold diamond hones as recommended by Cliff Stamp. They come in
several combinations, but one only
needs two, the Black and Blue and the Red and Green. The Black is the coarsest and the
Green the finest.
Now for the strops.....
You can get some nice leather and make these yourself or you can buy them from
sources on the www.
I have found for khukuris that the best size is about 1" to 1/18" wide as this will let the
strop get into the recurves nicely. I like
mine glued onto a piece of wood as I think it makes them easier to use.
Now to the sharpening technique.....
First work out all the dings and impacted areas you can by using the steel or other hard
surface like the chakma or the hard
back edge on a knife. You will be surprised at what a good steeling will do to bring back
an impacted edge. I brought back the
edge on the HI AK Bowie after cutting a soft 3/8" carriage bolt in two with a vise to
scary sharp with no other work needed.
If you still have areas that you couldn't steel out then take your file to the edge trying to
maintain the original convex edge.
Anyone can do this with a bit of practice.
Use the file the same way you do a hone and produce a burr on one side and then the
other to insure that you indeed have a
true edge to work with while removeing all the dings.
You may not get all of them out in the "sweet spot" with the file so that will be
accomplished with the hones. The final burr is to
be honed off. With the khukuri restored to its original shape and edge and with all the
dings and other mishaps worked out you
are now ready to proceed with the hones. Depending upon the edge you have managed
to produce with the file will determine
the correct hone to use.
The Black DMT hone is _very_ aggresive and a light touch is all that's needed to reform
and produce an edge that's ready to
be properly sharpened with the finer hones. The same technique that's recommended in
all the FAQ's is used to produce a finer
and finer burr from one side to the other. I find the Green hone to not be needed for
most work on a khukuri, however I do use
it to produce very fine edges on thinner blades.
After you have proceeded this far and have established a proper sharp edge you are now
ready to strop off any remaining wire
edge. I have for a long time now used two strops, one charged with Tripoli and the other
charged with Jewelers Rouge. These
are adequate and will produce a very sharp edge, however I have discovered like many
others before me that a Green Chrome
strop will produce the finest edge that I am able to make on any knife. Starting with the
Tripoli strop drag your khukuri with the
edge trailing, so as to not cut the strop, back and forth several times until you strop off
the wire edge. This is done with the
khukuri held low as Cliff states above.
When you have removed the wire edge proceed with the Jewelers Rouge further polishing
the edge of the khukuri. When you
are satisfied with that polish proceed to the last and final strop charged with the Green
Chrome and put the most incredble edge
you have ever made on you favorite khukuri or other knife.
With practice anyone can maintain a proper convex edge with the tools described here.
And with even more practice you can
maintain a flat beveled secondary edge on any knife.
In Ed Fowler's book he has a picture of a smooth Wyoming river rock that he picked up to
sharpen one of his knive's on in the
field and that shows that nothing spectacular is needed to maintain the edge on any
knife. Ed likes the convex or "Moran" edge
as do I. All of my using knive's have been converted to this style edge as I personally feel
it is the best edge that can be put on
any knife and it will serve you well for a longer period of time than any other method.
If you are unsure of yourself and your abilities the trick is to practice, practice,
practice!!!! Get yourself some cheap knives at a
flea market or other source and use them to practice on before moving on to more
expensive blades.
You will get better and better as time progresses and if I can learn to do it by hand
anyone can.
------------------
Blessings from the computer shack in Reno.
Uncle Bill
Himalayan Imports Website
Khukuri FAQ
Himalayan Imports Archives (33,000 + posts)
Himalayan Imports Shopping Site
copied it from Howard's FAQ site and thanks, Howard. This is good info.
=============================================
On reflection about all the sharpening methods and such I tend to forget the khukuri is
not just a knife style that is odd to the world outside of it's borders of use, but is also
odd in it's manner of hardening.
We are used to knives that even though they may be differentially hardened have a hard
edge the full length of the blade and
point.
The khukuri with it's blade starting out dead soft from the bolster to a progressively
harder edge gradually becoming very hard
at about 58 to 62 Rockwell C long the "sweet spot" and back to a bit softer about 52 Rc
at the point.
This makes for a unique blade that is incredibly tough and hard that can maintain an
exceptional edge all along the length of it's blade under very hard use under conditions
from the field to hardwood forest!!
The people that use the khukuri tend to be very poor and need a knife that is going to do
just what the khukuri does so well.
They are not going to be filing and stoning their blades away!
I know that most, if not all of us has read Cliff Stamps Reviews on different blades and
the torture he puts the knives through.
Most of us wouldn't even consider doing our pretty knives that way. I imagine that the
use the people who are so familiar with the khukuri, being raised up with one in their
hands is even beyond what Cliff puts the knives through sometimes.
With all that said think about it for a moment and realize what you would have to do
under the conditions the Nepali people live
under or in some of the survival threads we have here. Yes you need to keep your
khukuri very sharp in order for it to do it's
work, but you also have to make it last. I think I can safely bet that under those
conditions that we are going to learn to use the khukuri in such a way as to maintain
that edge with the Least Amount Of Steel Removal!!
Long ago and in places not so far away our ancestors used all sorts of iron implements
with steel edges forged onto them.
Good Steel was precious and sometimes hard to come by! Take a scythe for instance.
The edge was maintained much the same way the khukuri is. One difference is that the
steel along the edge was not filed or honed off if it became dinged or nicked up badly.
The scythe was laid on an anvil or rock if need be and the steel was carefully pounded
back into shape. Sometimes a scythe was even sharpened in this manner. By laying it's
edge on an anvil anyone that had experience with using the blade could take a hammer
and tap tap an edge onto it. This edge could shave you! I imagine that at one time the
original edge may have been put on this way to save the precious steel.
One of the reasons I got to thinking about all this is what Uncle Bill has stated at
different times.
Quote, paraphrase: "It isn't usually to far back to the house where a file and stone for
sharpening are kept and if a khukuri
becomes dull enough that it can't be sharpened in the field, it is taken back to the house
and fixed." Unquote.
Using the scythe as an example shows that steel doesn't have to be that hard to perform
exceptionally well. However it has to
be tough. Cutting harder and harder materials means that the steel must be harder in
order not to deform.
Another good modern day example is the Ontario version of the Bagwell Bowie Knives.
It is stated in the information about these knives that they are unusually soft for a knife
of it's size. The reason being is that they are very nice "Fighting" knives and they are
designed to cut clothing and flesh.
Hitting a bone hard with one would probably ding it pretty good. The important thing is
that the knife Is Not Going to Break!!
The article or other information I read about them states that they are Not good knives
for people who are wanting a "combat" knife as they are too soft to stand up to that kind
of abuse.
I have learned to use steels, the chakma, hones And sandpaper in different ways to keep
my knives as sharp as I need or want them without filing or honing their lives away.
I have learned a lot of it right here in this forum, some of it over the last 50 some years
of having a very profound Love of knives and other edged tools.
I know that it would take some time to use up a khukuri's good ege, but remember those
150 year old khukuris still in use have
had their edges reshaped as needed and rehardened over that time span.
The knives are "Used" up Not "Honed" up.
It does take some time and a lot of practice to get where you can "steel" an edge on the
khukuri due in part to the hard "sweet
spot." Once you have that part sharp with a hone or whatever then it becomes a matter
of maintaing that edge.
Sometimes using the steel or chakma it makes the edge "feel rough" in difference to the
smooth, slick feel a hone brings.
That "rough" edge can slice paper like it wasn't there.
Watch a butcher sometime and you will see them "steeling" a blade fairly often.
They can go quite some time between sharpening on a hone just by keeping the edge
aligned properly.
I used too hone for the pure joy of running something along that already sharp edge. I
have quit that now and use a steel or
chakma instead.
Sometimes a chakma may not be as hard as it needs to be and in that case the smooth
spine of a hard knife can be used in it's
place. I can see a Huge difference when I do this sometimes!
Use different pressures and techniques until you figure out what's best and what works
for you.
All your knives will thank you by lasting a lot longer.
It doesn't take much in obtaining the tools I use in sharpening all of my knives.
These items are what I use in varying stages and depending upon the condition of the
edge that's needing sharpened. And I can
cheat by using my Grizzly belt sander, but that is seldom needed after a good edge is
established unless you badly impact it on a
hard surface. And even then the tools described below will do the job needing done.
You already have a steel in the form of the chakma or the hard back of a good knife. I
am fortunate to have a solid piece of
smooth round carbide that was used to make metal cutting tools from and mounted it in a
brass handle. A good smooth steel is
optional since you can _make do_ with the items above.
Get yourself two or three _good files_like the Nicholson Black Diamond brand in lengths of
6"-8" and 10 inches. If you only
get two then get the 6" and 8" as they are the handiest to use. Get yourself a good _file
card_ to maintain your files properly.
The best ones have a brush on the opposite side of the wire cleaner which looks
something like a wool or other textile carder.
A file with a piece of metal embedded in it will cause gougeing and eventually ruin your
file by picking up even more pieces of
metal. Take care of your files as you would any other fine cutting instument by keeping
them free of rust and insure that their
cutting edges are protected when put up. A _good file_ is invaluable in maintaining the
softer areas of a khukuri's edge.
I like the DMT duofold diamond hones as recommended by Cliff Stamp. They come in
several combinations, but one only
needs two, the Black and Blue and the Red and Green. The Black is the coarsest and the
Green the finest.
Now for the strops.....
You can get some nice leather and make these yourself or you can buy them from
sources on the www.
I have found for khukuris that the best size is about 1" to 1/18" wide as this will let the
strop get into the recurves nicely. I like
mine glued onto a piece of wood as I think it makes them easier to use.
Now to the sharpening technique.....
First work out all the dings and impacted areas you can by using the steel or other hard
surface like the chakma or the hard
back edge on a knife. You will be surprised at what a good steeling will do to bring back
an impacted edge. I brought back the
edge on the HI AK Bowie after cutting a soft 3/8" carriage bolt in two with a vise to
scary sharp with no other work needed.
If you still have areas that you couldn't steel out then take your file to the edge trying to
maintain the original convex edge.
Anyone can do this with a bit of practice.
Use the file the same way you do a hone and produce a burr on one side and then the
other to insure that you indeed have a
true edge to work with while removeing all the dings.
You may not get all of them out in the "sweet spot" with the file so that will be
accomplished with the hones. The final burr is to
be honed off. With the khukuri restored to its original shape and edge and with all the
dings and other mishaps worked out you
are now ready to proceed with the hones. Depending upon the edge you have managed
to produce with the file will determine
the correct hone to use.
The Black DMT hone is _very_ aggresive and a light touch is all that's needed to reform
and produce an edge that's ready to
be properly sharpened with the finer hones. The same technique that's recommended in
all the FAQ's is used to produce a finer
and finer burr from one side to the other. I find the Green hone to not be needed for
most work on a khukuri, however I do use
it to produce very fine edges on thinner blades.
After you have proceeded this far and have established a proper sharp edge you are now
ready to strop off any remaining wire
edge. I have for a long time now used two strops, one charged with Tripoli and the other
charged with Jewelers Rouge. These
are adequate and will produce a very sharp edge, however I have discovered like many
others before me that a Green Chrome
strop will produce the finest edge that I am able to make on any knife. Starting with the
Tripoli strop drag your khukuri with the
edge trailing, so as to not cut the strop, back and forth several times until you strop off
the wire edge. This is done with the
khukuri held low as Cliff states above.
When you have removed the wire edge proceed with the Jewelers Rouge further polishing
the edge of the khukuri. When you
are satisfied with that polish proceed to the last and final strop charged with the Green
Chrome and put the most incredble edge
you have ever made on you favorite khukuri or other knife.
With practice anyone can maintain a proper convex edge with the tools described here.
And with even more practice you can
maintain a flat beveled secondary edge on any knife.
In Ed Fowler's book he has a picture of a smooth Wyoming river rock that he picked up to
sharpen one of his knive's on in the
field and that shows that nothing spectacular is needed to maintain the edge on any
knife. Ed likes the convex or "Moran" edge
as do I. All of my using knive's have been converted to this style edge as I personally feel
it is the best edge that can be put on
any knife and it will serve you well for a longer period of time than any other method.
If you are unsure of yourself and your abilities the trick is to practice, practice,
practice!!!! Get yourself some cheap knives at a
flea market or other source and use them to practice on before moving on to more
expensive blades.
You will get better and better as time progresses and if I can learn to do it by hand
anyone can.
------------------
Blessings from the computer shack in Reno.
Uncle Bill
Himalayan Imports Website
Khukuri FAQ
Himalayan Imports Archives (33,000 + posts)
Himalayan Imports Shopping Site
