ZDP-189 - Best blade steel so far

i am a newspaper printer , while i was at work last night i decided to do a few cut test with my FFG endura 4 ZDP . the cuts were done to some spent paper roll cores . my knife was sharpened to 6000 grit on my king stone and the total blade angle is about 35 degrees (17-18 per side) . i performed about 20 cuts and most were going into the solid glued core (brown center section) . i must say the ZDP held up extremely well , there was very little difference between the first and last cuts . when i use to do this with my VG-10 centofante 3 , the blade was noticeably duller after 5-6 cuts .

enduraZDPcut3.jpg


enduraZDPcut2.jpg


this was 4 progressively deeper cuts (plus the deep one behind the knife ;)) .
enduraZDPcut1.jpg
 
I was just finishing my Busse Tank Buster sheath, one of the last steps is to carve the sides of the leather all smooth. Last time I made a sheath I used my ZDP Caly 3 (with the 0.004" thick edge), it kept cutting and cutting with little sign of slowing down (even after doing horrible things like scraping the edge sideways on the leather).
This time I used my D'Allara Drop Point (also sharpened nearly flat with the primary grind), and the VG-10 edge didn't hold up anywhere near as well. I have to say ZDP-189 really does hold up well on abrasive material.
 
I was fortunate enough to aquire a ZDP stretch. I carried it with the factory edge for a few days and experienced some of the worst chipping problems of any blade ever. Yikes. I sharpened it up on my Edge Pro and it took a savage edge. I have yet to test this new edge under real world conditions but for now, it's a paper murdering device. Sheesh, it's scary sharp. I'm hoping the initial chipping was due to a little overheating on the factory sharpening belt. If this knife holds THIS edge for any realistic length of time, we're talking HOMERUN here. If it continues to chip, then Houston we have a problem. Time will tell. And it's a fine pleasure to carry this stretch anyhow. I'll report back soon. :eek:

As a side note. For super hard blade steel, this ZDP sharpens up fairly easily on the edgepro waterstones. I was very surprised. I would have thought diamond stones were the only thing that would cut this steel effectively. Not so. the 220 grit stone does the trick in only a short time with average effort.
 
i recently used my ZDP endura4 to open the top of a coffee can and i noticed very small chips on the blade but nothing crazy for what i did , the ZDP held up pretty well . the knife was sharpened to 1200 grit (king stone) at 15-17 degree angle per side .

here's a pic :

spydercoedge.jpg
 
I love the way ZDP cuts. It just feels different when cutting wood due to the high Rockwell hardness I'm assuming.
 
well since it isnt stainless i would pass. CPMS30V, CPMS90V i think those are better
 
gundude73 said:
well since it isnt stainless i would pass. CPMS30V, CPMS90V i think those are better
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How is stanless-ness classified? D2 doesn't qualify as stainless because it has 12% chromium as opposed to the "required" 13%, right? So is 13% the magic number regardless of Carbon content? If so, ZDP-189 would be considered stainless because it is composed of 20% Chromium.
 
jimnolimit said:
i use king waterstones to sharpen my ZDP endura 4 , gets the job done for me .
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No disrespect at all directed at "Mark J" but I have to agree with "jimnolimit".

Now I do agree with Mark that ZDP-189 does not abrade easily by any means. But I"ve done a lot of good sharpening and blade tune ups with my Spyderco ceramic stones. I've actually used ceramic stones on my ZDP blades far more than I have used diamond stones on them.

A lot of people need to realize that sharpening the blade of one of these newer blade steels is not a Microwave Oven type job. It truly does take some patience. But I like to use the ceramic stones on my ZDP blades because with the ceramic stones they tend to remove stock in a very even and consistent manner. And I like to do a final finish with a super hard novaculite stone which really puts a very wicked edge which grabs at what ever you cut.

I love ZDP-189. I don't see sharpening as a problem >> no it's just going to take a little longer that's all.

Spyderco's ceramic will abrade any of the blade steels we have available to us. AGain I have no idea what tool steel or cutlery seel the military industrial complex has. I'm sure they have stuff that would even put ZDP-189 to AUS-8 status. But it will be years before we get to try it out :(
 
THG said:
How is stanless-ness classified? D2 doesn't qualify as stainless because it has 12% chromium as opposed to the "required" 13%, right? So is 13% the magic number regardless of Carbon content? If so, ZDP-189 would be considered stainless because it is composed of 20% Chromium.
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well ZDP has low carbon. which contributes to it having stainability. now in my case i generally dont like uncoated stainable steels, my acid hands love killing stainable steel. :D that is why for me CPMS30V, CPMS90V, etc would be better.
 
gundude73 said:
well ZDP has low carbon. which contributes to it having stainability. now in my case i generally dont like uncoated stainable steels, my acid hands love killing stainable steel. :D that is why for me CPMS30V, CPMS90V, etc would be better.
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With all due respect Gundude that's not the case at all. ZDP-189 according to an official Spyderco Steel Chart I have right here on my desk says that it is a 3% carbon content and a 20% Chromium. Looking at this chart I got from Spyderco I don't see any other steel on this chart that has that high of a carbon content. It's H-1 that has a very low carbon content of 0.15%>> I think you might have ZDP confused with H-1.

Quite the contrary ZDP-189 has a huge carbon content comparatively speaking. I would love to know what all other alloying metals it contains.

Actually I think because of it's extraordinarily high carbon content is probably why I had the corrosion problem I had at one time. But the high carbon is probably why it's similar to 440V when you go to sharpen it :eek:
 
JD Spydo said:
With all due respect Gundude that's not the case at all. ZDP-189 according to an official Spyderco Steel Chart I have right here on my desk says that it is a 3% carbon content and a 20% Chromium. Looking at this chart I got from Spyderco I don't see any other steel on this chart that has that high of a carbon content.

Quite the contrary ZDP-189 has a huge carbon content comparatively speaking. I would love to know what all other alloying metals it contains.

Actually I think because of it's extraordinarily high carbon content is probably why I had the corrosion problem I had at one time. But the high carbon is probably why it's similar to 440V when you go to sharpen it :eek:
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well i am a little tired today. :eek: messed that one up. but that doesnt want to make me get any still. my acid hands would rust that blade something fierce! :eek::eek::eek:
 
gundude73 said:
well i am a little tired today. :eek: messed that one up. but that doesnt want to make me get any still. my acid hands would rust that blade something fierce! :eek::eek::eek:
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Yeah it's H-1 that you're thinking of that has an extremely low carbon content.

it's kind of ironic in a way that Spyderco's 2 best loved blade steels are at opposite ends of the spectrum. ZDP-189 is the about the highest in carbon content and H-1 is certainly at the lowest. But yet those are probably Spyderco's most successful blade steels.

Again I would love to know what other alloys are in ZDP-189. I have to believe that it probably has some tungsten, cobalt and/or vanadium in it. It almost has to have one, if not all of those to have the properties it has.

Anyway it's a super blade steel and I sure want more ZDP blades in my footlocker. I still want to see a ZDP-189 Hawkbill :cool:
 
i would say , the only reason that ZDP isn't fully stainless is that a good bit of that 20% chrome is tied up with carbon as carbide particles . that being said , i use my ZDP endura4 to cut a good amount of food and i just rinse the blade off after im done , shake it dry and wipe it with a paper towel . i EDC my endura4 and it works great in that capacity , if i were to go camping/fishing/etc i would probably use it as a backup not a primary tool .
 
JD Spydo said:
No disrespect at all directed at "Mark J" but I have to agree with "jimnolimit".

Now I do agree with Mark that ZDP-189 does not abrade easily by any means. But I"ve done a lot of good sharpening and blade tune ups with my Spyderco ceramic stones. I've actually used ceramic stones on my ZDP blades far more than I have used diamond stones on them.:(
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+1

IMO , unless your sharpening tungsten carbide (WC) , diamond isn't a must .

honestly , i only use diamond when im in a rush , a few swipes and im done , or if i want to re-profile an edge quickly . i use king water stones to do the majority of my sharpening . i like the cutting action of ceramic stones , especially water stones .

i personally tend to use hard ceramic stones on blades with lower HRC's because hard ceramics tend to remove less material , water stones are fast cutting . i use diamond to lap and true my ceramic stones .
 
JD Spydo said:
With all due respect Gundude that's not the case at all. ZDP-189 according to an official Spyderco Steel Chart I have right here on my desk says that it is a 3% carbon content and a 20% Chromium. Looking at this chart I got from Spyderco I don't see any other steel on this chart that has that high of a carbon content. It's H-1 that has a very low carbon content of 0.15%>> I think you might have ZDP confused with H-1.

Quite the contrary ZDP-189 has a huge carbon content comparatively speaking. I would love to know what all other alloying metals it contains.

Actually I think because of it's extraordinarily high carbon content is probably why I had the corrosion problem I had at one time. But the high carbon is probably why it's similar to 440V when you go to sharpen it :eek:
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I think he simply accidentally mixed up the words "high" and "low."
 
jimnolimit said:
+1

IMO , unless your sharpening tungsten carbide (WC) , diamond isn't a must .

honestly , i only use diamond when im in a rush , a few swipes and im done , or if i want to re-profile an edge quickly . i use king water stones to do the majority of my sharpening . i like the cutting action of ceramic stones , especially water stones .

i personally tend to use hard ceramic stones on blades with lower HRC's because hard ceramics tend to remove less material , water stones are fast cutting . i use diamond to lap and true my ceramic stones .
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Well "jimnolimit" you are preaching to your own choir when you're making that first statement for sure>.. And no disrespect or sarcasism meant to any of the good brothers here that might disagree with us. But there are a lot of guys out there that when they go to sharpen a blade if they don't get instantaneous results they don't feel like they are accomplishing anything.

But sharpening a blade is parallel to preparing a good meal. It takes some time to do it right and there aren't any worthwhile shortcuts to sharpening some of these newer supersteels we've been blessed with. A lot of guys feel if they are not removing a massive amount of stock after doing 4 to 6 passes that they are not accomplishing anything.

And I do agree that those waterstones that you use will abrade any cutlery steel known to any of us here on the bladeforums. I've had waterstones and liked them and I still have them but don't use them as much. But what I really like about using the ceramic stones is the truly even and consistent stock removal and the consistent blade edge you get from heel to tip.

It takes a while and I won't say otherwise because I usually do a blade while I'm watching a good TV show or game. But ZDP really isn't any worse to sharpen than 440V which I still think is one the meanest steels to sharpen out there. But to put a really superior edge on one of these supersteels you've just got to have some patience. But patience pays off good because I haven't had to do a complete sharpening of my ZDP Caly Jr since September. Usually doing a 50 to 60 pass tune up on my ultra-fine 204 stones does a wonderful job. Be patient guys :) it's not like climbing Mt. Everest by any means. It just takes some time that's all. The only time I use diamond is when my blades have really taken a bad beating.

Long live ZDP-189 and the rest of the Supersteels :cool:
 
THG said:
How is stanless-ness classified? D2 doesn't qualify as stainless because it has 12% chromium as opposed to the "required" 13%, right? So is 13% the magic number regardless of Carbon content? If so, ZDP-189 would be considered stainless because it is composed of 20% Chromium.
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Yeah the requirement is 12% to be considered stainless but it should really be interpreted as "12% free chromium". D2 has 11.5-12% chromium but only 7-8% free chromium. ZDP-189 develops rust spots just as easily as D2 so I'm thinking its free chromium is also around there. The rest are tied up as carbides.

By contrast 440C has less chromium than ZDP-189 at 17%, but it has 13% of it free.
 
gunmike1 said:
Super Blue is another steel that is a tremendous performer, and like Mastiff said it is Tungsten based as well. All hard M2 is another great performer. I guess I'm a Tungsten steel fan myself.

Mike
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I like tungsten steels too. Are there any stainless steels with tungsten (other than S35VN and 20CV with a small amount of it)?

Edit: found some! SRS-15 (and ZDP-189 itself if that is considered stainless). SRS-15 looks really interesting.
 
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Anyone that claims to be "the expert" on ZDP is full of themselves. It is still a fledgling exotic steel that we are all learning about, including Hitachi.

sal (2009)
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boy, talk about authority.

well, i finally settled my sharpening problems with my zdp endura. all i had to do was put some micro-grit (or metal polish) on the rough side of a leather belt. i polish both the 9* main and the 15* micro. no untreated stropping. before this i finished with grit on a glass slab, followed with just oil on glass. i've a feeling i was applying too much pressure to keep the edge consistent. the zdp promise that keeps delivering is very-little-sharpening-to-stay-sharp. it may lose its hair splitting ability early on but you have a sharp slicer much longer than you can remind yourself to touch up. i really hope they keep making a ffg endura in zdp. and yes, i'd like to see spyderco apply its own heat-treat on this steel some day.
 
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