ZT 0102, How do y'all feel about this 'hawk?

why use V4E and say it is tough ?
tough than what impacting steel out here ?
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Exactly. It might be tough for a high wear resistance steel, but it does not make much sense for a tomahawk. I worry that it was chosen because it sounds cool rather than being the best steel for the job.
 
Snakebreaker said:
Again with the "hole in the head" design. Outside of a very lazy and cheap way to shave weight off the design, I would love for someone to tell me the benefit of this. The cutout or "hole" in the head on a breaching or tactical type hawk is serves no purpose other than a great opertunity for the hawk to get hung up in the material its cutting, breaching or chopping through.
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The cut-out on the head is meant to leverage the prybar at the end of the pommel;
It provides a good grip to the head, aligning the prying motion.

A quick look at this should suffice:
rescue14_bg.jpg


I doubt ZT does a cut-out on the head just for wall hanger.
 
Looks like the price on these is going to be about 320.00 from most major online stores. Seems pretty decent when compared to the prices of an RMJ or even a winkler.
 
RMJ has a new Hawk, the Little Bird- $250. They use the correct steel and temper techniques.
 
JayGoliath said:
The cut-out on the head is meant to leverage the prybar at the end of the pommel;
It provides a good grip to the head, aligning the prying motion.

A quick look at this should suffice:
rescue14_bg.jpg


I doubt ZT does a cut-out on the head just for wall hanger.
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The entire width of that opening is maybe 2.5 inches. Being triangular means that on the acute end there will be no room for a finger. At best, you're looking at a 2 finger width of space, and not very comfortable at that. The Winkler, on the other hand, is very clearly meant for a solid 3 finger grip and a much more ergonomic design, in general. You're going to have to try a lot harder to convince me that the hole in the ZT is functional.
 
scouter27 said:
The entire width of that opening is maybe 2.5 inches. Being triangular means that on the acute end there will be no room for a finger. At best, you're looking at a 2 finger width of space, and not very comfortable at that. The Winkler, on the other hand, is very clearly meant for a solid 3 finger grip and a much more ergonomic design, in general. You're going to have to try a lot harder to convince me that the hole in the ZT is functional.
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You do raised an interesting point. I'm not going to try harder convincing you but i found out that this pic enlighten me and hopefully it does to you:
SYS03DBPic.php
 
Enlightening? Because it has a slot in the head to apparently add another tool? I fail to see how this is related.
 
scouter27 said:
Enlightening? Because it has a slot in the head to apparently add another tool? I fail to see how this is related.
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It is enlightening because i'm looking from the logic of PJ and breachers who actually used the Paratech (and D.Winkler), who designed the tools based on real world inputs and HOW ZT has looked into that cutout as well.
Comparing all the tools mentioned above (Winkler, ZT and Paratech) and pull in the Omnivore Jackal if you like, they are all crash axes (not ZT unless it has been tested for breaching/destructive works) but with different design intents and selling points. On the Paratech, there's very little space that's not sharp (even with gloves on) that enables grip for prying. Hence it makes total sense that adding a tool acts as a fulcrum for difficult prying.

Talk about the cut-out, if ZT made a bigger cutout like that of Winkler's, it is compromising the entire strength of the tool (more material removed, less rigid and prone to deformation). Though it is made out of V4E tool steels, known for its toughness, a bad design will only kill the intent (probably better if you make it extra thick). Winkler's version is compact yet the cut-out placed strategically to minimize deformation, not to mention Dan tends to make the head the bulkiest with his tapering (hence he could afford to make the cutout slightly larger) whilst the ZT0102 has uniform thickness overall and very little room for more stock removal.
It looks like ZT had offset the profile of the exterior and made a cut out for that.
By doing so distance between the cut-out and profile is uniform and it is one of the measures for overall rigidity.

Could ZT have made a cut-out that is similar to Winkler’s? Possible. Infringement of patents and lack of creativity I guess?
Could ZT have made a cut-out that is universally acceptable? Anything larger, the mass needed for the cutting edge and sharp spine is absent.

You will come across some with humongous paws that wouldn't fit into the cut-out. So this hawk is not for them?
The pic below should scale up what you claimed as barely fitting a finger (i assume the person holding it has very small palm).I have pried things without having to insert all my digits into a cut out of a hawk. (Size L in Maxpedition glove, for a measure)
zt_0102.JPG


Come to think of it again, as another point- the cut out might be good for resting your index finger whilst doing finer work.
I don’t work for ZT not affiliated with it but as someone who does design as trade, it is worth the discussion.

ZT0102, without handling yet, looks to me as a tool that has Viking, Ifugao blood in it, with premium steel , good overall size that meant to do many things, not excels in them .....at a good price point.

Looking forward to your refreshing inputs.:)
 
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I just don't see how the ZT cut out is comparable. It's shape denotes no apparent function. To simply state that they couldn't make the cutout bigger to accommodate a larger hand overlooks the fact that from a design standpoint this should have been covered before the cutout was added.

Do you know the saying in sculpting? Something like you start with a slab of marble and remove everything until it becomes what you want it to look like? I think ZT kept going after that.
 
I'm thinking since this is their first hawk, there are better designs to come.

Hopefully i will have fund for this so i can test it out.
I have yet to see any floating around except for the proto.
Wonder if the development for it is completed?
 
All you need to do to lever the end is grip the 'hawk upside down just under the head and apply pressure from the heel of your palm to the flat of the head...
 
I'm going to be skeptical. Those that do cutouts in the head usually make me wary. Especially since they're taking out weight in the area of a ax/hawk where you actually want it to be. But since its supposed to be a prybar, it still looks too small. Heck, it looks like I could fit two, maybe three fingers in it. Which defeats the purpose of that hole being there in the first place. Honestly, they probably would have been better served just making the spike a modified prybar.

Cost is right there with high end hawks (omnivore, winkler, rmj). Thus, it has to perform like those hawks.
Sheath looks decent.

However, I have no idea what that steel is and how it'll perform. Though looking up on it, its being compared with steels it seems like it would make for a much better woods ax than a crash ax. I'd like to get my hands on one of these but I hope they come out with a model that has a hammer instead of the spike and no prybar.
 
JayGoliath said:
The cut-out on the head is meant to leverage the prybar at the end of the pommel;
It provides a good grip to the head, aligning the prying motion.

A quick look at this should suffice:
rescue14_bg.jpg


I doubt ZT does a cut-out on the head just for wall hanger.
Click to expand...

The ZT displays the cutout in a less pretentious form than other manufacturers, however I'm most certainly unconvinced of any functional benefit. Quite the contrary in fact. For a true breacher hawk.....which the ZT obviously is supposed to be.......that hole in the head design WILL cause far more frustration (and in a life or death situation, likely be responsible for the latter) in any breaching or prying situation by hanging up in the material you are breaching.

I've used many different designs of breaching type Hawks to exploit many different materials and in no uncertain terms, the hole in the head design shows a huge frustration at its best and a detrimental situation at its worse.

Again.....the Hawks specifically designed for heavy duty field use such as Sayoc/Winkler, RMJ, Swamp Rat, VTAC, and Tracker Dan Grey Matter models use a solid head design for a reason. The are efficient for breaching.......the hole in the head is not. It's a cheap and lazy way to reduce weight. The ZT makes it more fashionable by trying to look more appealing (or cool). I'm unconvinced and unimpressed.

The pry end also appears extremely suspect to breakage under any significant pressure applied to it. I will take my Kill Devil with a masterfully built pry bar end tip every day of the week and twice on Sunday's opposed to these "Tracker Tom" type knife designs in a tomahawk. Trying too hard to accomplish to much in one piece and failing at all of them.
 
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I see the 0102 tomahawk is listed as discontinued. Were any ever released or was this project scraped during the manufacturing process?
 
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cannonball said:
I see the 0102 tomahawk is listed as discontinued. Were any ever released or was this project scraped during the manufacturing process?
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LOL -- another victim of KAI's infamous cutting-edge product development process:

1. Design tool.
2. Show design to the world.
3. Throw it straight in the trash can.
4. ???
5. Profit.

I'm not hating on them or anything, but I can't help but chuckle a little every time they pull this stunt. :p
 
It's funny that there's an obvious design flaw and how people try to justify it like it's their design or something.
 
FortyTwoBlades said:
LOL -- another victim of KAI's infamous cutting-edge product development process:

1. Design tool.
2. Show design to the world.
3. Throw it straight in the trash can.
4. ???
5. Profit.

I'm not hating on them or anything, but I can't help but chuckle a little every time they pull this stunt. :p
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Holy crow, did they even have any physical examples. Do they take pre-orders to gauge people's interest in buying a product and scrap it if there isn't enough?
 
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