“the Day After”

[ibear]

“THE DAY AFTER”
Jul 23, 2005 - FreeMarketNews.com

Two years ago, General Tommy Franks, former commander of Iraqi invasion forces, expressed his belief that the U.S. populace would one day trade their freedoms for the perception of safety.

In an interview in Cigar Aficionado, he said, “That goes to step number two, which is the western world, the free world, loses what it cherishes most, and that is the freedom and liberty we’ve seen for a couple of hundred years in this grand experiment we call democracy…It means the potential of a weapon of mass destruction and terrorist, massive-casualty-producing event somewhere in the western world – it may be the United States of America – that causes our population to question our own constitution…”

Jim Sinclair, writing on jsmineset.com comments on this issue. He notes, “What ever happened to ‘Give me Freedom or Give me Death.’

It probably went into the trash heap in today’s society along with ‘Death before Dishonor.’ … When I am 80, I will look back and laugh silently at the adventures I have had that others will never have. I will chuckle at the things I have done that no one will ever know of. I will leave contented in whatever circumstances exist at the time. How many others can look forward to such a situation?”

Sinclair expresses the energy, devotion, and the moral and physical courage that generations of Americans who have stood upon principle and manned the battlements against hostiles have been willing to summon. He concludes, “Living by a code, not the commandments of others, is the pathway that leads to self discovery and true freedom that no political or economic order offers.”
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There is no guarantee of security and there never will be. Even in prison people get killed by other people. In reality, there exists only such security as you provide for yourself and your loved ones! Eternal vigilance and more than adequate preperation.... that is the only security that will ever exist.
Thanks,

iBear

 

[munk]

Ibear, are you affiliated with Freemarketnews?

>>>>>>>>>

There won't be a Day After, because our freedom is being lost in increments. If it happened overnight we would fight, at least if the battle did not interupt our favorite TV program.


munk

 

[ibear]

Ibear, are you affiliated with Freemarketnews?

>>>>>>>>>

There won't be a Day After, because our freedom is being lost in increments. If it happened overnight we would fight, as least if the battle did not interupt our favorite TV program.


munk

GaaaaaaW Leeeee but you are smart! And a Bone A Fide Montanian to boot!

There ya go, trying to win my heart again! No wonder I enjoy you so much!
Thanks,

iBear

 

[ibear]

Ibear, are you affiliated with Freemarketnews? - Munk
****************************************
Certainly...... NOT!

iBear

 

[ibear]

Ibear, are you affiliated with Freemarketnews?

>>>>>>>>>

There won't be a Day After, because our freedom is being lost in increments. If it happened overnight we would fight, as least if the battle did not interupt our favorite TV program.


munk

There is no guarantee of security and there never will be. Even in prison people get killed by other people. In reality, there exists only such security as you provide for yourself and your loved ones!

"But you must remember, my fellow-citizens, that eternal vigilance by the people is the price of liberty, and that you must pay the price if you wish to secure the blessing. It behooves you, therefore, to be watchful. -- Andrew Jackson, March 4, 1837

To Charles Schumer, Dianne Feinstein, Teddy Kennedy, Barbara Boxer and other like minded half wits: The price of liberty is eternal vigilance, and You want WHO to have a monopoly on guns???

“Security is mostly a superstition. It does not exist in nature, nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding danger in the end is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is a daring adventure or nothing.” -- Helen Keller

Eternal vigilance and more than adequate preperation.... that is the only security that will ever exist.
Thanks,

iBear

 

[Thomas Linton]

There is no guarantee of security and there never will be. Even in prison people get killed by other people. In reality, there exists only such security as you provide for yourself and your loved ones!

Colorful, but factually incorrect. Neither I nor my "loved ones" found the cure for small pox or invented Kevlar, to name two of thousands of examples of acts of others that increase the security of myself and my family. Do I have the primary responsibility for me? Sure, but that does not justify the statement quoted.

. . .

“Security is mostly a superstition. It does not exist in nature, nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding danger in the end is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. [The fearful are caught as often as the bold.] Life is a daring adventure or nothing.” -- Helen Keller

Equally colorful and equally nonsense. This statement assumes a false dichotomy - "outright exposure" vs. absolute "security." Life is not nearly so simple. And while black and white are easier to see, there are shadings - degrees of freedom and security. While there is always risk, risk avoidance typically reduces risk. Disregard of risk increases the odds of undesirable outcomes.

You elect "outright exposure"? Cut the seat belts out of your cars, refuse innoculations, trash the smoke detectors, unilaterally disarm the police and Armed Forces, totally (totally) open the borders, eat food from rusty, bowed-out cans, and make Ted Kennedy President. Then we'll see if "outright exposure" works as an operating plan. THAT would be a "daring adventure."

My uncle Harold was a fighter pilot. He was shot down x 3 and shot others down x 7. After the war, he was a test pilot on the F-86 project. Lord, he was married five times! On his desk was the sign that begins, "The are old pilots, and there are bold pilots."

On balance, it is a good thing that the most free people on earth constantly complain about lack of freedom.

 

[munk]

Thomas, you are right, it is not either/or, as so often men frame problems, but that said, I don't think Ibear is advocating cutting seatbelts.




munk

 

[ibear]

Colorful, but factually incorrect. Neither I nor my "loved ones" found the cure for small pox or invented Kevlar, to name two of thousands of examples of acts of others that increase the security of myself and my family. Do I have the primary responsibility for me? Sure, but that does not justify the statement quoted.
. . .

Equally colorful and equally nonsense. This statement assumes a false dichotomy - "outright exposure" vs. absolute "security." Life is not nearly so simple. And while black and white are easier to see, there are shadings - degrees of freedom and security. While there is always risk, risk avoidance typically reduces risk. Disregard of risk increases the odds of undesirable outcomes.

You elect "outright exposure"? Cut the seat belts out of your cars, refuse innoculations, trash the smoke detectors, unilaterally disarm the police and Armed Forces, totally (totally) open the borders, eat food from rusty, bowed-out cans, and make Ted Kennedy President. Then we'll see if "outright exposure" works as an operating plan. THAT would be a "daring adventure."

My uncle Harold was a fighter pilot. He was shot down x 3 and shot others down x 7. After the war, he was a test pilot on the F-86 project. Lord, he was married five times! On his desk was the sign that begins, "There are old pilots, and there are bold pilots."

On balance, it is a good thing that the most free people on earth constantly complain about lack of freedom.

Good examples... all extremes and certainly common sense goes a long way to understanding this complex issue!

But, you are intelligent, a bit more so perhaps, than most of us... so I am sure that you knew that already.

Cut the seat belts out of your cars (stupid is as stupid does), refuse innoculations (we already have done that for years), trash the smoke detectors (NaaaaaaW), unilaterally disarm the police and Armed Forces (I support the police and our armed forces), totally (totally) open the borders (you mean like they are now), eat food from rusty, bowed-out cans (naaaaaaw, I will pass), and make Ted Kennedy President (BaaaaaaH... Ugh! Ya got me by the gizzzard there!). Then we'll see if "outright exposure" works as an operating plan.... It doesn't and I would never follow that suggestion!

Good post!

Thanks,

iBear

 

[ibear]

Thomas, you are right, it is not either/or, as so often men frame problems, but that said, I don't think Ibear is advocating cutting seatbelts.




munk

Life is not nearly so simple. And while black and white are easier to see, there are shadings - degrees of freedom and security. While there is always risk, risk avoidance typically reduces risk. Disregard of risk increases the odds of undesirable outcomes. - Thomas Linton
******************************************
Certainly true. Whats to argue? That life is not nearly so simple.... or that white and black are not easier to see.... or that there are degrees of freedom and security? Whats to argue.... no argument here that I can see!

Common sense is such a wonderful attribute, don't you think?

Good thinking!

iBear

 

[munk]

You're up pretty late, Ibear.
Well, it's 1:37 am in the munk compound, and I'm going to bed. When I get up, I hope this thread makes more sense to me...



munk

 

[richardallen]

IF we'd cut of all the seat belts of every car, it would be safer. People rely on their seatbelts and other safety euqipment such as aqirbags so much, that they start to feel too secure and do stupid moves they wouldn't have done otherwise.

In Spain for instance you dont have to weat seatbelts. It works alright there.


Keno

 

[ibear]

You're up pretty late, Ibear.
Well, it's 1:37 am in the munk compound, and I'm going to bed. When I get up, I hope this thread makes more sense to me...



munk

I was up late.... your fault obviously.... keeping me awake with your wit and wisdom, as you were. No wonder I like Montanians!

Common sense is such a wonderful attribute, don't you think? Some people have it in spades and others.... well..... ahhhhh, they can't find the shovel - for the trees! Or was it the trees for the shovel.... well anyway.... gotttta go go!

Good thinking!

iBear

 

[ibear]

IF we'd cut of all the seat belts of every car, it would be safer. People rely on their seatbelts and other safety euqipment such as aqirbags so much, that they start to feel too secure and do stupid moves they wouldn't have done otherwise.

In Spain for instance you dont have to weat seatbelts. It works alright there.


Keno

According to some serious studies, seat belts save lives. I have no idea if they factor those few that are trapped in the vehicle by seat belts, into the overall equation.
I suspect they do not bother with that! Probably overall the figures would change a bit, if that factor was included. YES, I'm guessing!

Interesting subject to pursue though. Nice of you to bring up that point.
Thanks,

iBear