“Salt” multi tool?!

P

PenguinsRcool2

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I am an avid fisherman, and am also a guide. I carry a leatherman free p4 with me fishing every time. Rust has always been an issue, i dump oil on it reguarly, still gets some surface rust and pitting, and with leatherman tolerances it does not take much to ruin the tool. Why doesnt anyone make an lc200n or vanax or magnacut even m390/20cv multitool. Even AEB-L or n690 is considerably more stainless than leathermans steel. I have titanium fishing pliers but having pliers, scissors, a knife, an awl with a threading hole (great for knots in high wind or low light), bottle opener, and a heavy blunt object all in one!! I personally am stunned quiet carry hasnt made one, or leatherman or sak, or anyone. And i understand its my fault for not maintaining the knife but i personally think a super corrosion resistant version would sell like hot cakes even for 300 bucks
 
Victorinox tools have been pretty rust resistant in my experience. I'd wager that if you clean and dry it at the end of the day you'd never have to worry about rust.
 
People ask this from time to time the SAK swisstool is the best we have come up with.


 
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As for the original question why hasn't anyone made a multitool entirely out of blade steels, I can think of a couple of reasons. One, the corrosion resistence of those steels depends in part on the heat treatment used. What makes for a good blade doesn't always work for a frame. If every part is not heat treated the same, every point of contact between parts become a point of possible galvanic action. It's the same when you use different metals for different parts. Two, it is possible that many of those steels simply aren't malleable enough to be formed into the shapes required without cracking, meaning the parts would have to be machined out of solid billets. I think your $300 ballpark is way low. $800 would be more realistic, and might still be low. Makes for a pretty expensive hammer.
 
Leatherman has replied to many curious customers that their tools (knives and screwdrivers, awl, etc) are all 420HC steel.
I'm not certain what Victorinox uses on their Multitools, but their standard knives use 1.4116 stainless and I'd be surprised if they used something different on their MT's.

420HC and 1.4116 are very similar steels, almost equivilents:

______________1.4116_____________ 420HC
Carbon %____0.45-.050___________0.40-0.50
Mang_________0.4_________________0.8
Chr_________14.50-14.80_________12.00-14.00
Moly__________0.6________________ --
Van___________0.1________________0.3

The difference I believe is the surface finish. Leatherman tends to sandblast most of their tools/frames, while Victorinox polishes just about everything.
The difference can be dramatic. A sandblast finish can have up to twice the surface area as a polished finish.
From a corrosion resistance perspective this has a two-fold effect. Any water or especially salt water on the surface will bead on a polished finish much better and wipe away easier. Also, with the grain size of steel, corrosion can react to different parts of the steel matrix depending on what is exposed. With twice as much surface area, the water has twice the likelihood of being in contact with steel material that is susceptible to rust. I believe this is the true fault of Leatherman tools.

On tools like the Wave where the pliers are polished but the tools and frame are not, I have noticed a lot more corrosion on everything but the pliers. It can help a lot to spend a night with some Mothers Mag and rub down the frame and all the tools.

Having said that: I fish with an old Leatherman kick that receives very little maintenance. While it does have some surface rust spots, it does not affect function and can be easily cleaned once a year. I polish any rust spots with Mothers Mag, thoroughly clean it with Dawn and hot water, then oil it with a high quality synthetic lube (Miltec-1). It has been going strong for over a decade and still works great when I need it. I have found that after years of this maintenance it rusts less and less each year as all the tools are polished more.

Multitools are meant to be used. I would recommend soaking your P4 in a jar of synthetic motor oil from time to time. I have found this to allow oil to really penetrate all the little crevasses in a tool and lasts at least a year for keeping the pivots clean. I have a Leatherman Core that lives in my truck and get's wet from the repeated heat/cool cycles that cause condensation. It is soaked in oil and always ready when I need it. Synthetic motor oil will never gum up over time like standard oils will.

I for one would not want to pay the hundreds of dollars for a mutlitool made from LC200n when I have just as much of a chance of loosing it as a standard Leatherman.
 
Macchina said:
Leatherman has replied to many curious customers that their tools (knives and screwdrivers, awl, etc) are all 420HC steel.
Click to expand...

FYI, the letters "HC" in "420 HC" stand for High Carbon. In fact you could technically call 420 HC a carbon steel, because the amount of carbon in 420 HC is well above the minimum threshold that defines what a carbon steel is.

The general rule about increasing carbon content in steel is that it provides better edge retention and makes the steel harder, but also can make the steel less corrosion resistant and more prone to breaking, however it cannot be understated just how much the heat treatment also plays a role.

...but 420 HC is still relatively soft as far as knife steels go.

Macchina said:
I'm not certain what Victorinox uses on their Multitools, ...
Click to expand...

Probably because Victorinox doesn't disclose that information.

Macchina said:
... but their standard knives use 1.4116 stainless and I'd be surprised if they used something different on their MT's.
Click to expand...

It's something different. Surprise! :D
 
Macchina said:
Leatherman has replied to many curious customers that their tools (knives and screwdrivers, awl, etc) are all 420HC steel.
I'm not certain what Victorinox uses on their Multitools, but their standard knives use 1.4116 stainless and I'd be surprised if they used something different on their MT's.

420HC and 1.4116 are very similar steels, almost equivilents:

______________1.4116_____________ 420HC
Carbon %____0.45-.050___________0.40-0.50
Mang_________0.4_________________0.8
Chr_________14.50-14.80_________12.00-14.00
Moly__________0.6________________ --
Van___________0.1________________0.3

The difference I believe is the surface finish. Leatherman tends to sandblast most of their tools/frames, while Victorinox polishes just about everything.
The difference can be dramatic. A sandblast finish can have up to twice the surface area as a polished finish.
From a corrosion resistance perspective this has a two-fold effect. Any water or especially salt water on the surface will bead on a polished finish much better and wipe away easier. Also, with the grain size of steel, corrosion can react to different parts of the steel matrix depending on what is exposed. With twice as much surface area, the water has twice the likelihood of being in contact with steel material that is susceptible to rust. I believe this is the true fault of Leatherman tools.

On tools like the Wave where the pliers are polished but the tools and frame are not, I have noticed a lot more corrosion on everything but the pliers. It can help a lot to spend a night with some Mothers Mag and rub down the frame and all the tools.

Having said that: I fish with an old Leatherman kick that receives very little maintenance. While it does have some surface rust spots, it does not affect function and can be easily cleaned once a year. I polish any rust spots with Mothers Mag, thoroughly clean it with Dawn and hot water, then oil it with a high quality synthetic lube (Miltec-1). It has been going strong for over a decade and still works great when I need it. I have found that after years of this maintenance it rusts less and less each year as all the tools are polished more.

Multitools are meant to be used. I would recommend soaking your P4 in a jar of synthetic motor oil from time to time. I have found this to allow oil to really penetrate all the little crevasses in a tool and lasts at least a year for keeping the pivots clean. I have a Leatherman Core that lives in my truck and get's wet from the repeated heat/cool cycles that cause condensation. It is soaked in oil and always ready when I need it. Synthetic motor oil will never gum up over time like standard oils will.

I for one would not want to pay the hundreds of dollars for a mutlitool made from LC200n when I have just as much of a chance of loosing it as a standard Leatherman.
Click to expand...
I wonder how their black coating or their colored coating (such as sand color in rebar handles) compares in rust resistance.
 
A.L. said:
I wonder how their black coating or their colored coating (such as sand color in rebar handles) compares in rust resistance.
Click to expand...
Black oxide is itself technically a form of rust. It does provide some additional protection over un-blued steel, but it's unclear how much and probably minimal at best, and it obviously doesn't work in the spots where it has been worn off from surface rubbing or scraping. It has a better effect on regular steel but is usually considered mostly just a cosmetic thing when it's done on stainless steels.

I have no idea what the tan/coyote coloration is.
 
mnblade said:
Without question, Victorinox is your best option if corrosion resistance is an issue.
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There's an important caveat to that statement: Victorinox multitools are your best option with their all-stainless construction. Not SAKs. The combination of steel blades and aluminum liners can cause galvanic corrosion in salty environments...as I learned when I pulled a SAK out of my fishing bag after a trip to the beach.
 
hsherzfeld said:
The combination of steel blades and aluminum liners can cause galvanic corrosion in salty environments...as I learned when I pulled a SAK out of my fishing bag after a trip to the beach.
Click to expand...
That's one major reason why it's important to make sure that your SAK is oiled. The oil not only helps to lubricate the pivots, it also acts as a protective barrier against that type of corrosion. And it goes without saying that it's a good idea to rinse your SAK in fresh water after you get home, dry it, and immediately apply fresh oil. Over time the oil works its way out and dries up. You should make sure that this won't be an issue before taking it to a salty environment. SAKs can handle a lot of things, including a dunk in saltwater, just as long as you rinse them off and apply some fresh oil afterwards.
 
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