1211 blade off center question

Hauraki · Feb 21, 2019

Hi all
I was reading this book illustrated encyclopedia of knives daggers n bayonets, read about Ka-bar, and remembered I had one of those ordered some 20 years ago.

I got it out from storage and noticed subtle differences from the book, the handle on mine sits higher, a quick search brought me here and I read about the answers the tang was higher (further back) from the blade.

But I also noticed from the top view, the blade seems to be off center as well, best to show it with pictures.
Note the handle touches the shadow in one pic but not the other.
Shared album
https://photos.app.goo.gl/9t7mj5CptDEPaH5JA

My question - is that a QC issue or a "feature"? Thanks

gunsil · Feb 21, 2019

First of all that book is pretty strange, MK2 knives didn't come out until 1943, not 1941 as the book seems to say. Secondly, the company that made your knife has no true relation to the company that made the originals other than the name KA-BAR. The originals were made by the Union Cutlery Co who was an actual manufacturer. The ones like yours are made by KA-BAR Inc who do not actually have a factory and have their MK2 type knives made by Cutco.

Hauraki · Feb 21, 2019

Thanks Gunsil

I had an impression mine was made by/branded Ontario but could be wrong. It was probably purchased from knife center with a bunch of other stuff, including a Gerber guardian backup that I still keep.

Can I assume the blade off center was a manufacturing issue? Thanks.

zzyzzogeton · Feb 21, 2019

You very well could have a "Kabar" made by Ontario. It would just not be a "Kabar by Kabar". The 1219C2/USN-MK2 of WW2 fame took on the generic name of "KABAR" during the war, regardless of whether the knife in question was made by Union, Camillus, PAL or Robeson-Suredge. Kinda like how all tissues are "Kleenexes", all salicylic acid tablets are "aspirin", all photocopiers are "Xerox machiines". There are knives out there that people call "a Kabar" that have no resemblance to a 1219C2 except that they have a steel blade.

Ontario got the contract from the government to make the 1219C2 (although it has a different number now in the modern era) in the early 1980s and has been the only "official" maker for government issue versions since that time.

Camillus kept making them as civilian only versions until 2006, Case made some during the 1990s, and Kabar still makes reproductions to this day.

As for the off-center issue, I doubt they had a lot of them that were very bad. The 2 I have aren't like that.

Maybe you got one made on a Friday afternoon or early Monday morning?

gunsil · Feb 22, 2019

Hauraki, the knife in your photo album was made in Olean, NY by KA-BAR as a division of CUTCO. It says KA-BAR right on it, why would you think it was made by Ontario?

sac troop · Feb 22, 2019

1980 is when Ontario started making this knife for Government contract. However Camillus was still making the same knife for Government contract up until 1989. During that time there were other small run Government contract knives made, the MSI marked knife is the most infamous. I say infamous because I've never seen another knife so crudely put together that got stocked in Government inventory.

zzyzzogeton · Feb 22, 2019

MSI was Material Specialists Incorporated, allegedly out of Allen Texas (northeast of Dallas). I say allegedly because when I once thought I could track some info down, I contacted the Chamber of Commerce and the City of Allen in 2010. Neither organization could even remember the company being there, so it must have left town in the late 80s or early 90s with no forwarding address.

Hauraki · Feb 22, 2019

gunsil said:
Hauraki, the knife in your photo album was made in Olean, NY by KA-BAR as a division of CUTCO. It says KA-BAR right on it, why would you think it was made by Ontario?

"I had an impression but could be wrong"
I was reading some knife mags back then and picked a few I was most interested in to order. Ontario could just be something I read about, or a mix up with the m9 bayonet that I didn't buy. Right that's probably it…

sac troop · Feb 25, 2019

Don't know how MSI turned into MSR. I don't think I can blame that one on spell check.

I heard at one time that they were in southern California, but never ran across any confirmation to that one either. Whoever and wherever they were they should have hired some experienced knife hafters.