(2024) 7Cr18Mov is better than (1989) 420J ?

[Cognoscenti]

Hi

I discovered this video test from JoeX where he ABUSE a Rambo III bowie

I know 420J and 3-5-7-9 Cr18Mov to be bottom of the bottom in term of steel for knives application and that all theses United Cutlery (1989)/MasterCutlery/Hollywood Collectibles Group are mainly build/sold as DISPLAY blades.

but still....damn (wow)
I NEVER expected the steel of the HGC Rambo III to be so tought in terms of shock/penetration/holding an edge !

This HGC Rambo III is made of 420 Steel and i know the latest version of the United Cutlery one (2024) is made of 7cr18mov
so im wondering : Did the 07Cr18Mov is more tought thatn 420J in your opinion ?

See by yourself , start the video at exactly 05min15secondes :

 

[knarfeng]

Hi
I know 420J and 3-5-7-9 Cr18Mov to be bottom of the bottom in term of steel for knives application and that all theses United Cutlery (1989)/MasterCutlery/Hollywood Collectibles Group are mainly build/sold as DISPLAY blades.

3-5-7-9 Cr18Mov?
Did you mean the series 3Cr18Mov, 5Cr18Mov, 7Cr18Mov, 9Cr18Mov
If so, those are very different alloys with very different properties.
9Cr18Mov is on the order of 440C and is a decent alloy for every day carry.
7Cr18Mov is on the order of 440A, and can be a decent enough alloy.
3Cr18Mov is not something I would purchase for normal use as it has poor edge retention.

 

[Cognoscenti]

3-5-7-9 Cr18Mov?
Did you mean the series 3Cr18Mov, 5Cr18Mov, 7Cr18Mov, 9Cr18Mov
If so, those are very different alloys with very different properties.
9Cr18Mov is on the order of 440C and is a decent alloy for every day carry.
7Cr18Mov is on the order of 440A, and can be a decent enough alloy.
3Cr18Mov is not something I would purchase for normal use as it has poor edge retention.

So 7Cr19Mov is truly better than 420 ?

 

[bikerector]

I know 420J and 3-5-7-9 Cr18Mov to be bottom of the bottom in term of steel for knives application

My thought, this is inaccurate.

 

[Tsujigiri]

It depends on what you're using the knife for, first and foremost. 4Cr13MoV for instance is a nice steel for nail clippers. If all you're testing is how much you can thrash the knife against hard surfaces without it breaking, then the lower grade steels heat treated softer will perform better (but dismally for edge retention).

These Chinese alphabet steels are excellent for the price when used in the right applications. 8Cr13MoV is almost as good as AUS-8A, 9Cr18MoV is almost as good as 440C, and 10Cr15CoMoV is almost as good as VG-10.

 

[bikerector]

So 7Cr19Mov is truly better than 420 ?

As long as it's heat treate is right. And 420J2 isn't the same as 420, exactly. There are multiple 420 steels.

Here's a handy comparison chart with 420J2 and some similar steels to 7cr. X50 is swiss army's steel, along with being very common in kitchen cutlery.

https://zknives.com/knives/steels/steelgraph.php?nm=7Cr17MoV%2C4116%2CX50CrMoV15%2C420J2&ni=2816,752,622,790&hrn=1&gm=0

 

[DocJD]

Hi

I discovered this video test from JoeX where he ABUSE a Rambo III bowie

I know 420J and 3-5-7-9 Cr18Mov to be bottom of the bottom in term of steel for knives application and that all theses United Cutlery (1989)/MasterCutlery/Hollywood Collectibles Group are mainly build/sold as DISPLAY blades.

but still....damn (wow)
I NEVER expected the steel of the HGC Rambo III to be so tought in terms of shock/penetration/holding an edge !

This HGC Rambo III is made of 420 Steel and i know the latest version of the United Cutlery one (2024) is made of 7cr18mov
so im wondering : Did the 07Cr18Mov is more tought thatn 420J in your opinion ?

See by yourself , start the video at exactly 05min15secondes :

JoeX is back ?

If so , good for him .

 

[Tsujigiri]

JoeX is back ?

If so , good for him .

Turned out the reason he had to take his channel down was some Karen neighbor who decided to claim to the police that he was a danger to society because of his knife tests. He recently got vindicated through the Austrian courts.

 

[knarfeng]

So 7Cr19Mov is truly better than 420 ?

7Cr19Mov is significantly better than 420J for edge retention. I'd also rank 7CrMoV (~440A) as better than 420HC.
I rank 440A as a bit better than 420HC in edge retention, if both are heat treated to the same hardness and the blades are the same profile.

 

[Cognoscenti]

7Cr19Mov is significantly better than 420J for edge retention. I'd also rank 7CrMoV (~440A) as better than 420HC.
I rank 440A as a bit better than 420HC in edge retention, if both are heat treated to the same hardness and the blades are the same profile.

thanks you so much for your answer knarfeng !

 

[KenHash]

C Cognoscenti
420J2 is a very low end Japanese steel. These days it is mostly used for outer cladding on San Mai laminate knives and also for some Dive Knives because
of it's strong corrosion resistance. But generally only the cheapest knives use 420J2 as there is a plethora of other suitable/better steels in Japan.
I don't consider the Chinese 7Cr19Mov to beany great steel but I would put it above 420J2.