20CV or 3V for Me?

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MatthewSB

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I know that there have been plenty of threads about 3V vs 20CV - I've read them :D

It seems to me that the main practical difference between the two is that 20CV will not rust. Am I wrong?

It's been proven that "chippy" S30V can be put through extremely hard use if it is ground obtuse enough with a lot of material behind the edge. Ground properly, as I'm sure Survive! knives are, 20CV should be able to stand up to a silly amount of abuse, right?

Has anyone had trouble with their Survive! 20CV edge chipping? Any regrets that you didn't go with 3V?
 
I never had regrets until I got S! 3V then I almost felt sad I hadn't tried it before hand. Don't get me wrong I ordered my s3.5 in 20cv I love it but much prefer my S! 3V The stainless properties are a plus but you severely have to abuse their 3V to see corrosion. I only have small 20cv blades so I don't do 'hard use' with them but I've split kindlin with my necker II and never seen any damage.

I've chipped my 3V once but it was my fault. I hit a rock.
 
I don't have experience with 20cv yet, but my 3v has been really easy to take care of. I don't skin animals or use it in the kitchen without cleaning it and I haven't been caught in a rainstorm with it either. With normal use and care I've been totally happy with my 3v knives. It has been easier to take care of and more trouble free than my 1095 blades, plus there are the expected bonuses of toughness and edge retention.

As to your last question, regrets about not choosing 3v, I made a post that you probably saw about steel choice for a 4.1. Before I knew as much as I know now about the steels, I ordered a 4.1 in 20cv with G10 handles as my impervious-to-anything-totally-weather-proof knife. After getting all the responses in that thread and before Guy had ordered steel for the 4.1's, Ellie let me change my order to 3v. ESPECIALLY now with the new heat treat and how that gives a big boost in corrosion resistance, I think that unless you need it with you while snorkeling or the shower or as a dedicated kitchen knife, I'd encourage you to go with 3v......... but, what size blade are we talking about here?
 
It could be a multifaceted question:

Which knife are you looking at
What are you looking to do with it

I have 2 3.5's and 2 4.1's one in each steel (though my 4.1 is M390). I use my 3V primarily, but if i was going to do a lot of food prep, or if i was skinning an animal i would switch to stainless. For general use or outdoorsy uses, i prefer the 3V as if i screw up (as i have) im more likely to roll an edge vice chip it. While the lube i put on my 3V is food safe, no lube is even more food safe...

All that said, my experience is with old spec 3V and by all accounts the new spec is even MORE resistant to corrosion... :rolleyes:
 
Thanks for the great responses, exactly what I was looking for!

Silver Needle said:
what size blade are we talking about here?
Click to expand...

Sorry for not being more specific earlier. I will be buying a 5.1, 4.7, and 4.1 as they are released over the next few months. I use medium sized (4-5") fixed blades for basic cutting chores, as well as field dressing small game. I use larger knives (5"+) for camp chores like fire preparation. I spend most of my time in the Northern woods, but do spend time on the freshwater rivers in Florida as well as in Brackish water along the coast.

Unless something changes after I get the knives and get a chance to test them, I intend to use the 4.1 for EDC chores, dayhikes and field dressing small game. The 4.7 will be brought along when I think there might be a chance of an unexpected overnight stay in the woods, but I still want to keep weight and bulk down. The 5.1 will be used for camping and longer hikes where I intend to make a fire but don't want to drag an axe along.

I've used Bark River's 3V before. I loved the edge retention and toughness, but it grew surface rust very easily. It seemed like I had to go out of my way to keep it cleaned and oiled and was overall irritating to manage. Since then I've been using an S35VN Bravo 1 and a Spartan Blades Harsey Hunter, also S35VN, for my "go to" field knives. I'm very interested to learn more about why one maker's uncoated 3V would resist corrosion more than another's?

4.5" blades made from S35VN have been great for me, I assume 20CV will be even better, but I know I'll feel like I'm missing something if I don't try a 3V blade. Maybe I"ll go with 20CV for the 4.1 and 5.1, and 3V for the 4.7? At least I have time to think about it, and learn as much as I can here first...
 
My GSO 5 is in 3V only, and I have produced spotting on my 4.1 before because I didn't clean it after food prep. Two things that affect the corrosion resistance of the same steel would be surface finish and Heat treat. I'm no HT expert so I can only speak anecdotally, but various HT protocols can change how a steel reacts. The surface finish is a little more straight forward. Guy has in the past stonewashed his blades and the overall surface finish was very smooth, IE less surface area/less chance to develop rust. The new finish is a peened style, not sure how it effects things as it looks to result in a matte orange peal style finish. Straight off the grinder finish, or sanded finish as I think most BRKT knives are, leaves very small scratches all over, which looks nice but results in a ton of exposed inner steel which can result in more spots to rust.
 
https://www.instagram.com/p/6-jRNOpbrQ/

I don't know much at all about, but follow that think for a heat treat weather test. Maybe it has something to do with the magic within Guy's beard? The new peened finish would seem to give more texture and places for corrosion in theory, but the pics say the opposite! I know Guy wouldn't dream up a new finish to take the product back a step.

Another link
https://www.instagram.com/p/7Yp3CoJbp4/
 
I'd say the 4.1 in 20cv for sure its still hefty enough to handle fire prep. So if you are near or in brackish water it wouldn't be much to worry about. Od go 3v for the 4.7 & 5.1. But that's just my preference. I don't see much of the sea water.
 
MatthewSB said:
I know that there have been plenty of threads about 3V vs 20CV - I've read them :D
It seems to me that the main practical difference between the two is that 20CV will not rust. Am I wrong?
It's been proven that "chippy" S30V can be put through extremely hard use if it is ground obtuse enough with a lot of material behind the edge. Ground properly, as I'm sure Survive! knives are, 20CV should be able to stand up to a silly amount of abuse, right?
Has anyone had trouble with their Survive! 20CV edge chipping? Any regrets that you didn't go with 3V?
Click to expand...
I have seen some slight patina on Bark River 3V in kitchen use. If you are seeing actual rust with surface damage then you might need to go with a more corrosion resistant alloy based on your use.
The 20CV is going to be a bit slower to sharpen than the 3V because of the increased abrasion resistance. Either alloy is great. :)
 
redwood22 said:
My GSO 5 is in 3V only, and I have produced spotting on my 4.1 before because I didn't clean it after food prep. Two things that affect the corrosion resistance of the same steel would be surface finish and Heat treat. I'm no HT expert so I can only speak anecdotally, but various HT protocols can change how a steel reacts. The surface finish is a little more straight forward. Guy has in the past stonewashed his blades and the overall surface finish was very smooth, IE less surface area/less chance to develop rust. The new finish is a peened style, not sure how it effects things as it looks to result in a matte orange peal style finish. Straight off the grinder finish, or sanded finish as I think most BRKT knives are, leaves very small scratches all over, which looks nice but results in a ton of exposed inner steel which can result in more spots to rust.
Click to expand...

This is spot on (pun intended) :thumbup:

I heavily used my stonewashed GSO-5.1 and GSO-10 in 3V, and the GSO-10 developed "freckles" (pitting) and some light surface rust after not being properly cleaned and left sheathed overnight. Here is a video of me cleaning it:

[video=youtube;IZe4T50nrog]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZe4T50nrog[/video]

l love that GSO-10, and per Silver's older thread, I think I'll name her "Anne" since she has ruddy hair (micarta handle) and cute freckles :D


I have an old-spec GSO-4.1 with the new HT and finish 3V, also used heavily. The only corrosion I saw was a teeny bit of spotting near the edge after doing some kitchen work and then sheathing the knife and leaving it over-night to see what would develop.

[video=youtube;tusmZwVfgM4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tusmZwVfgM4[/video]


I should mention that that knife was used to butcher a few roosters and, most recently, to field-dress a large whitetail in a marshy area while sleeting. It was rinsed with water, briefly dried on a towel, and re-sheathed. No spots developed.

P1030897.JPG



In my hard use of the 3V in smaller knives like the GSO-4.1, the only major damaged I caused the edge was cutting through folded lip of a steel can. The same use damaged my 20CV Necker II in identical fashion. Using a diamond (DMT) hone, restoring the same amount of edge on either knife took approximately the same amount of time. Here is an older video of an M390 GSO-4.1 - the edge had a few spots with rolls or microchips by the end but could still push-cut receipt paper.

[video=youtube;pVsKMAlYAcU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVsKMAlYAcU[/video]



My wife prefers to use stainless steels in her kitchen and garden because she is often too busy to get back to cleaning her tools until much later. I have no hesitation about choosing either, but I will mention that the properties of CPM-3V tend toward the uses for which most of the S! knives were designed. CPM-20CV excels and being stainless AND highly abrasion-resistant, but most of us don't need the level of abrasion resistance it is capable of, and the geometry of S! Knives tend to be thicker (>0.020" behind the edge) than desired for optimal slicing performance, geared more toward lateral strength and impact resistance.

BTW, if guy decided to use 420HC in a budget line of knives (quite stainless but low abrasion-resistance), I'd be all over it.
 
Thanks again for all of the very constructive responses.

I was able to get in on the 5.1 Pre-sale, ended up picking up one in each steel. I'll try both, and find out which works better for me. With Winter here I'll have plenty of chances to play out in the snow, build a few fires, butcher some meat, etc. If the 3V doesn't stain as badly, as it has in the past for me, I'll know what to go with when the 4.7s are available.
 
I hope the new ones have a sharper spine and can spark a ferro rod better than in the previous video !
 
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