4.7 CFV or Busse BATAC BG

scout1sg

scout1sg

Joined
Nov 9, 2009
Messages
1,101
Wanted to get some input/feedback from all you good folks out there that have some practical experience between these two knives. I want to gift one of these to my son as part of an upcoming college graduation gift. Both I believe have some similar characteristics (cost/value, steel, relative size, etc.) but I've never put them to use and I always have preferred the 5 or 5.1 size and waiting on a 4.1 as well. I've told him to do a little of his own research on the two and may end up one day having him personally check them out but I believe some input from those in the field would be of great value. One last caveat is that he might be joining the service (Army) in the very near future as well. Thx!
 
Well, the BATAC is not one I have owned, and I am not in the armed services...

But here are reasons why I'd choose the CruV 4.7

1) Edge-thickness and angle: Most of my coated Busse's have come with an edge that was nowhere close to even 20-dps and a thickness 0.030 - 0.045" at the shoulder. For raw abuse, that thickness can handle a LOT, but for most cutting tasks it just doesn't, well, cut. My Busse Hog Muk is uncoated and ground MUCH thinner and can endure everything I need it to (including cutting through sheet metal) so i know that the steel can handle a thinner edge if taken down to where it needs to be for performance. The CruV, in my experience, doesn't have the strength of INFI but can still compete quite well and that 4.7 will come with an edge already set to perform.

2) Coating: the Busse crinkle-coat is very durable and long-lasting but increases drag something terrible... It looks pretty cool if it gets torn away cutting metal! :D But the cerakote on the 4.7 is smooth and wears very well - no noticeable drag, quite durable. Plus, I like that brown color on the 4.7. Downside to the 4.7 here is the limit on color options, though if you have another 4.7 handy you could at least swap scales. *shrug*

3) Choil and talon-hole: the guard on the BATAC is wide to allow for the talon-hole, that makes a choked grip somewhat less comfortable - it is part of the Busse design that doesn't much appeal to me and is why I trend more towards Dogs and Rats. Except that Hog Muk :D no guard, no problem.

4) Handle comfort: I haven't handled the BATAC, but the 4.7 handle-design is exceptionally comfortable and very distinct from the BATAC, I cannot imagine preferring the latter... *shrug*

Like you, I'd honestly rather have the 5.1 to both ;)
 
I've had both. The BATAC bg is sr101, not infi. I think they are very close in a lot of ways but I will 100% agree with chiral in that the 4.7 will cut and the difference is huge. He's also right about the coating characteristics.

If I was going for a couple days in the woods I'd pick the 4.7. Well now that I think about it, whatever the job, I'd pick the 4.7.

But to be fair, the BATAC is really awesome. I look at it like a super high end Becker bk2 type tool. 4.7 is ready to go and the BATAC will need thinned out a bit.

Both are really cool knives though, he will love the gift.
 
If it will be used for knifely duties, I'll chime in for the 4.7... and I didn't particularly like mine when I had it.
If, on the other hand, the knife will be (ab)used in other ways, the BATAC's strengths might be desired.
 
I have used the hell out of one of my CG BATACs (I have three), sharpened it up and it cuts like a demon (coating and all). I do not however have experience with the 4.7 so I can't compare. Knives are such personal things however.
 
Appreciate all the feedback that's been provided, I prefer the handle on the 4.7 myself over the BATAC. Yes the BATAC I have is the BG version, Busse's in house heat treated 52100. I've always seen good reviews of that steel but have also seen some great reviews of the 4.7 CFVs. Most of the Busse's or kin I've used always were the uncoated, stripped or double cut finished blades and have little experience on their coated versions and wondered about any drag when cutting as well.
 
Hi Scout, I wanted to chime in a little on the BTAC vs 4.7, and also offer another possibility for you--the Spartan Difensa.

I don't have a BTAC, so I can't really give you a good idea about how it performs or feels in hand, but you can bet it will be the toughest of these knives by a good deal. It's probably going to need some edge reprofiling if you want to get it to the level of slicing that the other two knives enjoy. SR-101 is also likely the least stain resistant of the three as well, though it could be that CFV is less so. They should be close in this regard. Busse is my favorite knife company and they offer the best warranty and customer service in the industry, imho.

I have a 4.7 CFV and while I don't know what is going on with S!, I know they sure make one heck of a knife. I haven't used my 4.7 hard, but from all reports it is similar in application to 3V, with less stain resistance and toughness, but with the added benefit of being much easier to sharpen. This is a capable tactical blade, but where it really excels is in bushcraft duties. It is a demon at carving wood. The handle is super comfortable and works in a large variety of grips. I don't know how warranty work with S! would go.

The Difensa is made with S35VN, which of course is well known as a relatively tough stainless, though it will not stand up to abuse or have the edge stability of the other two blades mentioned. Still, I find it has a very nice balance of properties if you want a "worry free" steel--it has high abrasion resistance and won't often require sharpening (though it is a pain if you let it go too long and try to bring it back) and of course the corrosion resistance is very high, especially with Spartan's PVD applied, which really adds almost no discernible drag (but nor does the S! Cerakote). Spartan S35VN is heat treated very well, so the grain structure seems fine and the blade holds up better than you might expect. In hand this blade really shines, as it is bar none the most comfortable knife I have ever held.

So, in summary
Toughness: BATAC>>4.7>>Difensa
Edge holding: Difensa>>BATAC>>4.7
Stain resistance: Difensa>>>4.7>BATAC
Sharpening: 4.7>>BATAC>>>Difensa
Handle: Difensa>>4.7 (?BATAC?)
Wood carving: 4.7>Difensa (?BATAC?)
Self defense: Difensa>>4.7 (?Batac?)
Warranty: Busse>>>Spartan>>>Survive

Essentially, I think the 4.7 is the best woodcraft knife, the Difensa is the best soldier's blade, but then, you can never go wrong with a Busse!
 
Apocryphiliac said:
Hi Scout, I wanted to chime in a little on the BTAC vs 4.7, and also offer another possibility for you--the Spartan Difensa.

I don't have a BTAC, so I can't really give you a good idea about how it performs or feels in hand, but you can bet it will be the toughest of these knives by a good deal. It's probably going to need some edge reprofiling if you want to get it to the level of slicing that the other two knives enjoy. SR-101 is also likely the least stain resistant of the three as well, though it could be that CFV is less so. They should be close in this regard. Busse is my favorite knife company and they offer the best warranty and customer service in the industry, imho.

I have a 4.7 CFV and while I don't know what is going on with S!, I know they sure make one heck of a knife. I haven't used my 4.7 hard, but from all reports it is similar in application to 3V, with less stain resistance and toughness, but with the added benefit of being much easier to sharpen. This is a capable tactical blade, but where it really excels is in bushcraft duties. It is a demon at carving wood. The handle is super comfortable and works in a large variety of grips. I don't know how warranty work with S! would go.

The Difensa is made with S35VN, which of course is well known as a relatively tough stainless, though it will not stand up to abuse or have the edge stability of the other two blades mentioned. Still, I find it has a very nice balance of properties if you want a "worry free" steel--it has high abrasion resistance and won't often require sharpening (though it is a pain if you let it go too long and try to bring it back) and of course the corrosion resistance is very high, especially with Spartan's PVD applied, which really adds almost no discernible drag (but nor does the S! Cerakote). Spartan S35VN is heat treated very well, so the grain structure seems fine and the blade holds up better than you might expect. In hand this blade really shines, as it is bar none the most comfortable knife I have ever held.

So, in summary
Toughness: BATAC>>4.7>>Difensa
Edge holding: Difensa>>BATAC>>4.7
Stain resistance: Difensa>>>4.7>BATAC
Sharpening: 4.7>>BATAC>>>Difensa
Handle: Difensa>>4.7 (?BATAC?)
Wood carving: 4.7>Difensa (?BATAC?)
Self defense: Difensa>>4.7 (?Batac?)
Warranty: Busse>>>Spartan>>>Survive

Essentially, I think the 4.7 is the best woodcraft knife, the Difensa is the best soldier's blade, but then, you can never go wrong with a Busse!
Click to expand...

Very good points again and appreciate all that information, was actually interested in that model myself a short time back when seeing some initial reviews that came out. I do believe the warranty is rock solid through Busse as I used it once when I received a Boss Street proto with an obtuse grind near the tip area from another forum member, they promptly re-profiled it and sent it back relatively quickly and all I had to do was pay for the shipping to them and that was it. I also contacted S!Ks on the original 4.7 CFV I received that had an issue and they also promptly sent me a replacement along with a postage paid label to return the original. The Difensa reminds me a little of Bark River's Bravo Vortex.
 
scout1sg said:
Very good points again and appreciate all that information, was actually interested in that model myself a short time back when seeing some initial reviews that came out. I do believe the warranty is rock solid through Busse as I used it once when I received a Boss Street proto with an obtuse grind near the tip area from another forum member, they promptly re-profiled it and sent it back relatively quickly and all I had to do was pay for the shipping to them and that was it. I also contacted S!Ks on the original 4.7 CFV I received that had an issue and they also promptly sent me a replacement along with a postage paid label to return the original. The Difensa reminds me a little of Bark River's Bravo Vortex.
Click to expand...
That is a very interesting comparison, the Vortex. I don't have one, but I do have Bravos 1, 1.25, 1.5, 3 and EDC. The Difensa is ground a lot more acutely than any of those, and it's not as visually appealing to me. The forward finger choil is really useful though. It's really a no-nonsense, user friendly sort of blade (except for sharpening it).

Come to think of it, the SYKCO Dog Soldier looks like it will be the ultimate soldier's blade. I just paid for mine and I know others have too, so if you missed it, there should be some hitting the exchange in a couple of weeks or so.
 
I like the looks of that one as well but not crazy of the fullers they've been applying on them lately, I know there are those who like and would defend them but just don't see the practical purpose in them other than maybe reducing a little weight. The Trash 1 I suppose would be a consideration but begins to get a little oversized.
 
He has a couple classes left and will gift it to him after but I have a strong indication he will prefer the 4.7, I'm ultimately going to let him handle both but I believe the 4.7 has the edge. I believe the warranty might be of the only worry but not overly worried based on the reputation and reviews of the 4.7 CFV. My only worry would be if something were to happen to the 4.7 what sort of resolution could be made if no knife is available to replace it in a foreseeable future (lol).
 
Cape Buffalo in fact... ;) The Tracker (he was the head tracker in camp and just amazing !!)started work on it with his two knives but then I offered him this, the look on his face when it sailed through the task like it was cutting butter was priceless. He and I were alone working on the bull for a good while before the rest of the crew arrived with the vehicle (and 1/2 a village following), one of the other trackers when to pick up that BATAC and I though he was going to get backhanded....LOL He returned it to me cleaned and smiling !!!
 
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