44 Mag or 30-30

The Marlin is hands and fists above all of the others in quality, and I'd rather have a plain $200 Walmart Marlin 336 than all of the other lever actions in current production. The Winchesters were pretty good, but still not quite as good as a Marlin. The 16" Winchester Trapper was a very nice weapon. It was like carrying around a Ruger 10/22. Marlin made a 16" 336 for a while, but it was still 1/2 pound heavier simply cause the receiver on a 336 has that much extra steel.
 
Winchester had a model 71 in .348 that was very high quality. I hate the 94 action, too weak and sloppy. The '92 reproduction guns were nice too.
I have to agree with Marlins though, I have 3.
 
for me it was the .44 mag hands down. i like knowing that the cartridge is large enough to use as a bear gun and the report isnt as loud as the 30-30, i tried the 30-30 during hog season and the blast will knock you flat.
 
rctk1 said:
i tried the 30-30 during hog season and the blast will knock you flat.
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Don't shoot big rifles much, I guess.:D Any rifle round will "bark" more out of a shorter barrel. As rifle calibers go, the .30-30 is fairly mild. Back to the question at hand: Unless you want a handgun/long gun pairing if you are going to pack a rifle, get a rifle caliber. A .30-30 will get it done for you, as long as you do your part. It is perfectly capable of handling (although perhaps not the best choice) anything native to CONUS when used within its limits. The .44 mag will also get the job done, but isn't quite as versatile. Also IMHO while .44 mag ammo is plentiful you will find the odd box of .30-30 in places NO other ammo can be found. Not a huge deal for me, but some worry about re-supply. Really, either one will treat you well. It is simply where your preferences lie.
 
messer454 said:
-Marlin is a much better rifle than a Rossi or Puma in any caliber. Fit and finish wise, spare parts wise, made in America wise. I have handled a Puma recently and did not care for it, maybe they were better once, I don't know.
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Marlin vs. Winchester debates have always been about on par with Ford vs. Chevy. Many people disagree with you.

If I am not mistaken street value has them at about the same price and Marlin has American Walnut stock.
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Since the street value is about the same that tells me that many people disagree with you regarding the desireability of the Winchester clones. (For the record, I like both but probably would prefer a Marlin if they'd offer a 16" Trapper model again.)

-.30-30 will go through ballistic armor and a .44 mag will not. I read this from Jeff Cooper's article and have always found it interesting. Not that there are that many bad guys with body armor, especially in the woods.
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I disagree. Level IIIA is the best protection available in concealable armor. It is rated to stop a .44 Magnum at 1400 fps, which is handgun velocity. http://www.galls.com/banijspecs.html .44 Mag rifles commonly produce 1800 fps or better with normal pressure factory ammo. I wear a Level IIIA and I assure you I won't be comfortable with getting shot with any carbine or rifle, even if it is a pistol caliber weapon. A .357 at rifle velocity will probably also pierce a Level IIIA vest. 30/30 will clearly penetrate Level IIIA. Either the .44 Mag rifle or 30/30 will be stopped by a Level IV vest, but those aren't common. Those are basically the heavy SWAT/SRT style external vests.

- I have had Marlins in both, and stupidly sold my .30-30 for a more "modern" gun primarily because I cannot hunt deer with a rifle in Ohio.
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My condolences for selling a fine Marlin and for living in Ohio. :) Just kidding about that last part.

No one seems to have mentioned the obvious part: 4-6 shots for a 30/30 and 8-10 shots for a .44. Probably not an issue, but maybe if you intend to defend yourself from 4 legged predators.

30/30 is clearly better at medium ranges as others have stated.
 
Hi Guys,

I've been thinking of buying a .44 lever gun to pair up with my S&W 629. I was curious about an increase in range/power because of the longer barrel/more complete burn. A gunsmith told me he thought the rifle would not handle hot pistol loads very well.

A lot of you sound like you have this one nailed. Tell me.

-- FLIX
 
FLIX said:
Hi Guys,

I've been thinking of buying a .44 lever gun to pair up with my S&W 629. I was curious about an increase in range/power because of the longer barrel/more complete burn. A gunsmith told me he thought the rifle would not handle hot pistol loads very well.

A lot of you sound like you have this one nailed. Tell me.

-- FLIX
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Check out the .44 mag +P load and read what it says about rifles. The given velocities (1400+ fps for a 340 grain bullet) are out of a revolver! Imagine what it would do with a few more hundred fps!!

LINK


Tom
 
FLIX said:
I've been thinking of buying a .44 lever gun to pair up with my S&W 629. I was curious about an increase in range/power because of the longer barrel/more complete burn. A gunsmith told me he thought the rifle would not handle hot pistol loads very well.
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I can't think of any reason he would say that. The Puma can handle .454 Casull pressure (50,000+ cups) so it could handle any hot .44. The only thing I can think of is that the twist rate on the .44 (and .45 Colts/.454 Casulls) rifling is very slow, like 1 in 30. I'm just spitballing, but I've heard it doesn't handle very heavy bullets well (meaning they aren't as accurate with the super large bullets).

Leverguns.com has lots of good references and a forum with very knowledgeable types there. That's where you should be for very technical questions.

But bottomline is that either 30/30 or 44 are excellent short range rifles for deer and predators with four or two legs.
 
For those of you that haven't, check out the crazy Buffalo Bore loads. The .357 mag data shows revolver vs. lever action barrel lengths. They don't do that for the .44 mags, but it does give you an idea of the potential.

4 inch S&W L frame Mt. Gun

a. Item 19A/20-180gr. Hard cast LFN = 1375 fps
b. Item 19B/20-170gr JHC = 1411 fps
c. Item 19C/20-158gr. Speer Uni Core = 1485 fps
d. Item 19D/20-125gr. Speer Uni Core = 1603 fps

18.5 inch Marlin 1894

a. Item 19A/20-180gr. Hard Cast = 1851 fps
b. Item 19B/20-170gr. JHC = 1860 fps
c. Item 19C/20-158gr. Speer Uni Core = 2153 fps
d. Item 19D/20-125gr. Speer Uni Core = 2298 fps

http://www.buffalobore.com/ammunition/default.htm#44P
 
I have always liked the Winchester and Marlin. The only difference I went with the Marlins was simply because the Marlin is a bit bulkier having a better grip on my hands and it's round ejection is from the side. This makes the Marlin a better choice for adding scopes in my opinion. I found that the scope mounts for the Winchester were more expensive and I did not favor them. That does not mean that there was anything wrong with them. It just means that it is simply not my choice. Now if I was to get a lever action rifle that I was not going to add a scope to than I say go ahead and pick a Winchester. I know that most people would not put a scope on their lever action rifles but I put a red dot sight on mines. I hunt for hogs and in low light conditions that red dot sight is a bleasing. I now have two Marlins in .44 & 45/70. I will probably be buying a 30/30 in the near future since I sold mines a long time ago and that was a mistake I always remember.
Now I also like the lever action of the Brownings. I have not heard of them mentioned here. They are also really nice.
 
Peppe, where do you hunt? I've been doing mine in the Saawanee area, and up in Applachicola area. I have a permit for Bull Creek too, little closer to home.

Here's the scoop on rifles shooting pistol bullets.

1] the loading gate on a lever action was not made for the longer cast bullets that protrude out of the brass shell. It sticks out too far for chambering. Remember what I said about newer cartridges?

2] The bullet does not always stabilize in the longer bbl. The rate of twist is different in different guns. Therefore you need to try various brands of ammunition and check for accuracy.

3] The bullet with increased velocity may have poorer penetration than from a handgun. It mushrooms, fails, disinegrates, falls apart too quickly to reliably stop game.

Unfortunately you just can't go and buy a rifle cause it looks neat. You have to read various books and learn all about the cartridge, rifle and the action.

The 30/30 does use tough reliable bullets and is a much better hunting rifle. I hand load for my .44 and know its limitations. If in doubt I use my Guide Gun.

I'm an old guy, 60 yrs young, been doing this stuff for a while.:)
 
Sams, I usually hunt Big Cypress WMA Stair Steps & Turner River. I have been away for two years now in Iraq and I really miss the hunting of boars. Now going back to the topic. I shot a lot of hogs with the 30/30 and not one went pass 10 feet. It was dead accurate and I made my shots count. If I had only one choice I will stick to the 30/30 for those 100 yds plus shots. To me it is a tough question because they are both great rounds. It will just depend on how well you shoot with the specific rifle.
 
nemoaz said:
Marlin vs. Winchester debates have always been about on par with Ford vs. Chevy. Many people disagree with you.
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I wasn't comparing Marlin and Winchester. I was comparing Marlin and Rossi and/or Puma. Winchester's quality was equal to Marlin I think.



nemoaz said:
Since the street value is about the same that tells me that many people disagree with you regarding the desireability of the Winchester clones. (For the record, I like both but probably would prefer a Marlin if they'd offer a 16" Trapper model again.)
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-Chinese 1897 shotgun clones are selling like hotcakes too. Anything made for cowboy action shooting is selling right now. Some people have to have something that looks like a Winchester or they prefer that style. Thats fine with me, these were just my opinions as I think the Puma's are overpriced.


nemoaz said:
I disagree. Level IIIA is the best protection available in concealable armor. It is rated to stop a .44 Magnum at 1400 fps, which is handgun velocity. http://www.galls.com/banijspecs.html .44 Mag rifles commonly produce 1800 fps or better with normal pressure factory ammo. I wear a Level IIIA and I assure you I won't be comfortable with getting shot with any carbine or rifle, even if it is a pistol caliber weapon. A .357 at rifle velocity will probably also pierce a Level IIIA vest. 30/30 will clearly penetrate Level IIIA.
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I have never shot either at a vest. I was thinking of handgun velocities. I was going from memory on an article Jeff Copper wrote years ago during the assalut weapon ban applauding the .30-30 for home defense. I stand corrected.


nemoaz said:
My condolences for selling a fine Marlin and for living in Ohio. :) Just kidding about that last part.
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I would rather live in Michigan too, people seem to like hunters there. If only I wasn't an OSU alumni :)
 
I would rather live in Michigan too, people seem to like hunters there. If only I wasn't an OSU alumni
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I'm a Gator. If I can sneak in, I'm sure a Buck could also. :) ... especially right now with the Wolverines running around with their tales between their legs and licking their wounds.
 
I can't really add much , but , my thoughts any ways;)
I agree with the Ford vs Chevy , Pick the style that you like the most.
Me , I like Chevys and Marlins.
Rossi and Puma '92s, ( made by the same factory ) ,I've heard that a lot of thier recent .44 barrels are way oversize .
That can be overcome by either casting your own or buying cast bullets that are sized to fit .
New vs older rifles , I don't like the extra lawyer safties on the new ones , just personal preferance there.
I did not see were you mentioned what you may be hunting and what range.
I don't feel under gunned for black bear with my Marlin in .44 mag or my Marlin in .32 special ( basicly the same as a 30-30 ) out to 100 yards.
Self defence, my 20" Marlin 1894 holds 10 + 1 in the chamber , 30-30 5 or 6.
The .44 does not add as much velocity in a rifle as the .357 , but darn close.
The Marlin can be more picky about what it will feed , but some easy smithing can make a big difference.
Just my $.02

Phil
 
I'll take my Marlin 336 with 170 Federal ammo with Nosler Partition Bullets. It's equipped with a receiver sight and a white ivory bead front sight. Very fast.
 
Did I mention that I like Marlins ;)

IMG_7935.jpg



:D


Phil
 
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