440 series stainless steel

How well a knife performs, is going to boil down to the makers, more so than the materials. Blade design, geometry, and heat treatment, matter much more than blade or handle material-when it comes down to performance. If you like a knife, and it works for you, dont pay any mind to the steel chasers. Just enjoy it. Any knife of solid build and design, will out perform our own skills.

There are people in the world, who you could give a cheap butter knife to, and leave butt hole naked in the middle of the Amazon, and they could live the rest of their lives, thriving-not just surviving. Whereas all of us, with a gun, ammo, a Maxpedition pack full of the top of the line survival gear, and any number of knives of our choosing, would look like a sorry sack o' shyt after a few days (if we lasted that long)
 
I'm a very casual user, but also an elitist of sorts, I suppose.
If I pay good money for a folder, $200 - $600, then I expect decent steel that will hold an edge. Many knives are sold or traded without having cut anything, so ease of sharpening is a foreign notion to me.
I won't buy 154cm from anyone, regardless. I was run-around with that, and never could cut anything, even when I paid the Manu to sharpen it. Too many manu's send out new knives that are only good for warm butter.
(I did manage to cut my finger with one of Ernie's new blades, and was bloodily impressed)
 
Sonnydaze said:
I'm a very casual user, but also an elitist of sorts, I suppose.
I won't buy 154cm from anyone, regardless. I was run-around with that, and never could cut anything, even when I paid the Manu to sharpen it. Too many manu's send out new knives that are only good for warm butter.
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Is that my problem? My knife is a warm butter knife?:D

I understand that this thread is about 440 but could you explain your dislike of 154cm? I am just curious. Don't want to derail the thread or anything. Maybe it should be a PM.
 
I've had this Valor Super Sport that is stamped 440 Stainless Japan for 30 years. Still takes a razor edge, and it's done everything from box opening to deer dressing.

 
440C is the only steel designation I hope to see on the side of any knife to this day... It was at the top in edge-holding in the late 90s, and I don't know since, but since Chrome promotes wear resistance and edge-holding, how can it be bad? The answer is it isn't, and probably eats most of the super steels for dinner, including INFI which it beat in a very thorough late 90s mag test on manilla rope and other stuff... And D-2, and 154 CM, and ATS 34, and the first two knife-used crucible steels...

Quote, Jay Fisher:"There are new alloys all the time, and you'll see one thing in common with all of them. More details at this link. They compare their subjective performance details to one steel in particular. This one steel that is the benchmark for all comparisons of new stainless and wear-resistant alloy steels is (surprise) 440C. Why do you think that is? It's because 440C is a tried, true, and proven standard that is here to stay. It's interesting to note that no one steel has come and wiped 440C off the field, replaced every application of 440C in industry, manufacturing, or the military industrial field. 440C, that old, boring high chromium, hardenable, wear-resistant martensitic steel is here to stay."

"How does 440C receive a bad rap from knife owners who are not impressed with its blade performance?

A: Simply put, 440C is difficult to work with, and hard to finish, and there is a lot of 440C out there that was not correctly processed. This doesn't make it a bad steel, it means the knifemaker was careless. I believe this is one of the main reasons 440C gets a bad rap in some collector's or knife user's circles."

Gaston
 
Stainless knives of the 1950’s , 60’s, and 70’s were a mixed lot. I am of the opinion that the steels of the period were not as precisely made as today. When I get on the web site of steel makers who make knife steels, I really doubt the particle technology, process controls, we have now, was used then. I have older knives that can take and hold an edge, the metal is consistent, and I have others where the blade is rock hard in spots, and others that won’t take and hold an edge. I assume it is the steel. A couple of my Randalls from then, with 440C blades, don’t take as good of an edge as more modern steels. At least in my opinion.

I have a number of Rough Rider knives which are 440A, at least that is what I have been told. The fit and finish on these folders are excellent but the blade steels are disappointing. The blades are hard to rust, easy to put on an edge, but dull rather quickly. I think Smokey Mountain Works would be doing themselves a favor if they went 440C and had the blades properly heat treated.

I have several modern 440C knives, one a custom, and modern 440C properly heat treated is an excellent knife steel. Maybe someone with calibrated test equipment can sort 440C out from “better” knife steels, but I can’t.
 
helobite said:
Maybe someone with calibrated test equipment can sort 440C out from “better” knife steels, but I can’t.
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You are in the minority saying this: Most claim to have personally experienced 440C's inferiority to just about every other newer steel out there, and their belief is largely unshakeable... Maybe in some cases they are right, but to look down on 440C generally makes me just shake my head at the failibility of human perception...

Gaston
 
IMO its definitely not crap steel, it just got over abundantly abused by crap manufacturers for so long and in massive doses, because the cost was perfect for turning a quick buck, The market got flooded with the dollar store infomercial "440 surgical" steel knives that were/are in fact horrible. Poor heat treatments, poor blades, but they churn them out of manufacturing plants at astounding rates to make a quick buck. Add to that the fact that many/most average folks don't know a thing about steel, and many love a "good bargain", so those chinsy crap blades get bought up, and all the average consumer knows is it was crap, and so in the midst of new alloys and " super steels", the 400 series steel begins to get blamed for failing rather then the faulty production methods.

Quality manufacturers today still prove time and time again that 440(c) is still a great all purpose, all around blade steel. Its a poor man's s30v or Elmax when you really think about it. It's the original, the one that started off being the "balanced" do-it-all steel; resisted rust, held a decent edge, was tough, and under proper manufacturing practice, when quality > quantity, it still does make a pretty decent blade. As goes a, b, not the same, but even 420hc which can't be beat for rust resistance at that price still makes a decent budget blade, great for fishing...

An American classic!
 
even though there are likely 40 threads on this topic and people like or dislike this steel on whatever bias they have, i guess i'll open my big mouth as well. Most of the hatred for 440c comes from people who have used knives misrepresented as 440c by a cheap manufacture who just stamped "440c or 440" on a blade made of some other lesser quality steel or one of the other 440xxxx steels. In reality "real 440c" for lack of a better term is pretty great all around as stated above. it's very stain resistend, it holds a relatively good edge (I KNOW THAT THERE ARE WAY BETTER edge holders, so please don't come on here and start a war... I"m not comparing it's edge holding to M390 here... but it's decent) It's not as "tough" as some, but it's more ductile than a lot of those tougher steels so in real world use, it's less likely to chip out than some "superior" steels in it's category which i see as a bonus. I started out with 440c as my only steel when that was my budget based on these parameters and have done things that people wouldn't expect to do with a new "super steel" and the good ole 440c came out the other side looking far better than you'd expect. I'm in the military and my main "tactical" blade was made years ago from 440c and it's still on my vest today even though i have way more high end sexy steels... part of this is sentimental value of course as i've become attached to the old gal, but it's done everything imaginable and it's still going fine so why would I trade up so to speak? anyway, just one man's opinion.
 
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