8Cr13mov VS 440C

goodeyesniper said:
Are there any production knife makers who utilize "CPM 440c"?? If so, is it labeled as such, or just as 440c? I seem to hardly ever even see this steel around any more, unless you are dealing with certain custom makers. I guess it's just a cost thing? People either want the slightly "worse" steels for much cheaper, or the higher end "super steels" for a bit more??
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Maddogg774 said:
I've been looking and I can't find any manf. Labeling their knives with CPM 440c...but that would be cool.
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to my knowledge, they don't make a powdered or "CPM" version of 440C.
 
jimnolimit said:
to my knowledge, they don't make a powdered or "CPM" version of 440C.
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goodeyesniper said:
Are there any production knife makers who utilize "CPM 440c"?? If so, is it labeled as such, or just as 440c? I seem to hardly ever even see this steel around any more, unless you are dealing with certain custom makers. I guess it's just a cost thing? People either want the slightly "worse" steels for much cheaper, or the higher end "super steels" for a bit more??
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Maddogg774 said:
I've been looking and I can't find any manf. Labeling their knives with CPM 440c...but that would be cool.
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Not quite your literal search, but Crucible's S60V was formally titled 440V, based off of 440C: CPM® S60V (440V) (AISI 440C Modified)

So CPM S60V = CPM 440C... sort of? Not that you'll see CPM 440C anywhere and only rarely is CPM S60V called 440V in my experience. *shrug*
 
chiral.grolim said:
Not quite your literal search, but Crucible's S60V was formally titled 440V, based off of 440C: CPM® S60V (440V) (AISI 440C Modified)

So CPM S60V = CPM 440C... sort of? Not that you'll see CPM 440C anywhere and only rarely is CPM S60V called 440V in my experience. *shrug*
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440V or S60V is very different from 440C. 440V (S60V) has twice the carbon of 440C (2.15%) and 5.5% vanadium added.

In my opinion, the closed steel to 440C that has been powdered is 154CM (CPM-154). 154 has almost the same make up as 440C, but with 4% molybdenum. That 4% molybdenum should give 154CM a step up in both toughness and wear resistance over 440C.
 
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jimnolimit said:
440V or S60V is very different from 440C.
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No disagreement, they are very different steels by composition and manufacture, I was just letting those unaware know that S60V is CPM's version of 440C as stated by Crucible themselves (hence the link).

Anyone in the "know" think that the Chinese will have their hands on powder-metallurgy in the near future? Just curious...
 
The reason I started looking at "CPM" (brand name, not process) 440c was to see if it was possible to make USA made knives with USA steel that would be around $75 to sell.
 
chiral.grolim said:
No disagreement, they are very different steels by composition and manufacture, I was just letting those unaware know that S60V is CPM's version of 440C as stated by Crucible themselves (hence the link).

Anyone in the "know" think that the Chinese will have their hands on powder-metallurgy in the near future? Just curious...
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S60V wasn't created as powdered version of 440C, but as a steel to replace 440C in applications where more wear resistance was need over 440C. They started with 440C as base then modified it to make S60V.

The Chinese have a lot of big industry, I'm sure they have the ability to make higher end steels, but you're not going to see them used in cheaper knives because of time and cost restraints. These lower end steels that you see being used, are being used because they are easier to work with and heat treat.
 
csmaz said:
The key idea here is that the result was from YOUR testing. YOUR testing is completely unscientific at best. So in the future instead of claiming universal results from your test, realize that the backyard testing methodology you employ is nothing but a game.
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I dunno. I've spent a fair number of years as a materials research engineer and development chemist developing and testing materials. Several times over the years I have had to develop simple in-house techniques for measuring parameters when there was no existing ASTM method. The technique I employ is superior to anything else I have seen as it is designed to avoid issue of superior geometry overriding the differences between alloys. The only way to improve on it would be to have matched blades made in different alloys.

By the way, what did you say your credentials were for critiquing my work?
 
how about 8cr13mov vs 9cr13comov. is 9cr13comov better than 8cr13 in edge holding? benchmade website state that "increased levels of cobalt added for greater edge retention". is this true?
 
"http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/sh...inspection-tec"
woo, nice post. you should update your post when u have chance to test s30v. thank you for ur infor
 
Just a note here...."CPM" stands for 'Crucible Particle Metallurgy' and comes from the metal manufacturer Crucible Metals. You are correct in stating that the CPM is not a process as much as a trade name.
 
Carpenter makes a powder version of 440C in their CTS line. They call it CTS-40CP. One of the knife mags did an article about CTS steels ( XHP) already and Carpenter says another article is coming out about their steels with input from Sal. G., Gayle Bradley, and Bob Dozier. It's the April 2012 edition but it's not available online according to Carpenter. http://www.cartech.com/whatsnew.aspx?id=3684
 
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This! I was pretty sure I'd heard that too but didn't know enough to speak up and was too lazy to do the research. Thanks :0

The Mastiff said:
Carpenter makes a powder version of 440C in their CTS line. They call it CTS-40CP. One of the knife mags did an article about CTS steels ( XHP) already and Carpenter says another article is coming out about their steels with input from Sal. G., Gayle Bradley, and Bob Dozier. It's the April 2012 edition but it's not available online according to Carpenter. http://www.cartech.com/whatsnew.aspx?id=3684
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broe said:
Just a note here...."CPM" stands for 'Crucible Particle Metallurgy' and comes from the metal manufacturer Crucible Metals. You are correct in stating that the CPM is not a process as much as a trade name.
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CPM actually is a process as claimed by Crucible. It just so happens to be that they gave a fancy name to a now well known technology.


CPM S90V is a unique tool steel made by the Crucible Particle Metallurgy process.
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http://www.crucible.com/eselector/prodbyapp/stainless/s90vs.html
 
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