A KA-BAR I'm working on

David Stifle

David Stifle

Joined
Nov 20, 2008
Messages
10,188
Hi Guys,

I thought I's share my current project with you. It's 1084 steel, the blade is 7" long, the spine is 13/64's and it's 1& 15/16's wide. This is more robust than the original WWII KA-BAR, as it was only 5/32's thick, and the tang had almost 90 degree shoulders. My mindset as I was making this was I need to build a knife military combatants could literally depend on in a life and death situation. Lol, I know, a little dramatic, but I like KA_BARS!

As it stands now, it weighs just under 6 oz., and I know I may need to take a little more off. Notice the fullers. They were put in by hand using a dremel, a method I've been using with success for over a year. It takes intense concentration, as one bobble really messes it up.

As you probably know, the original KA_BAR has a thin, almost sheet metal guard, a stacked leather handle, and a metal pommel. I've got a few ideas in this regard, which I'll share later. Well, hope you guys chime in, I always like to hear what you think.
 

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David, one way to get the look of the original handle is to stack 1/4" thick pieces of tan canvas or linen Micarta on the tang and grind them just like they were leather. With a good buffinbghe final look can really be nice, and the grip is really comfy.
 
Thanks Stacy, that sounds like a neat approach. I posted this because I thought some folks might be interested,especially since we have so many military and ex-military folks on the forum and, not too many makers are making these. I hope I'll get some comments from guys who carried this fine knife in the theater. Improving on a legendary knife is daunting and help is more than welcome. For example, how much should a combat knife weigh? Where do you draw the line between weight/strenght and loss of effectiveness? Would you have used 1084? D2, or one of the new modern supersteels? Would you put a stacked leather handle on it? Some people swear by them, others note there are better materials available, as Stacy noted.
 
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When I was a boy, used WW2 K-bars were everywhere, and the hardware store sold new ones for a few bucks. No one said, "Wow, that's a K-bar!, Cool knife."......they just were what you took camping. Most were pretty flimsy in the guard and the handles were showing gaps. All the blades were thick and had the requisite fuller, but it varied in size. They were moderately heavy, but not too bad. They had a rather soft HT, and probably only ran Rc54 at most. Many seemed to be much lower. You could easily sharpen most of them with a file. The sheaths were anywhere from heavy oiled leather to junk grade. Also, the name K-bar was more of a style than a model. Many "K-bar" knives came from Germany and from companies that were not the Govt. suppliers. I remember one I had that was made in Germany that was marked C45E. The numbers were formed in such a way that it looked like CASE if you did not check closely. It may even have been pre-war.
 
Stacy, I spent quite a bit of time on the KA-BAR forum. Boy, they are indeed believers. KA-BARS are still being made, using the original milspecs. One of the things we discussed was the blade thickness (5/32's), if the fullers strenghtened or weakened the blade, and the squared tang shoulders. KA-BAR says there is a slight radius, but it sure is hard to see. My position during that discussion was the original design could be vastly improved, but the folks on that forum came back with "why? It's a proven design. It digs foxholes, opens cans, and is a terrific fighter" More than likely though, the design was approved by the Government because of economic reasons, not because it was the best design they could get. The Government did not award a contract to any company, and that's why, even today, the design remains in the public domain. Anyway, as a result of all the discussions, I was more or less challenged to make a better KA-BAR.
 
I think 80CRV2 would be perfect for this application. A2 would also be an excellent choice after seeing Nathan's videos on hard use fighters. What is the width on the fuller. It looks about 3/8" but it's hard to tell from a picture.
 
I'm not familar with 80CRV2, but I'll do a little research, and I have not seen Nathan's video's. I had'nt thought of A2. Thanks for the suggestions, Willie. Yes, the fullers are 3/8's wide, and fairly shallow. I could have went deeper, but that would just weaken the blade.
 
80CRV2 is like a cross between 1084 and 5160. Similar alloying to 52100 but in smaller amounts. I just bought a bar of it to try.
 
80CRV2 fits the L2 spec, but not all L2 will be the same as this steel. AKS sells it as 1080+.
 
Re: the originals:

David Stifle said:
..."It digs foxholes, opens cans, and is a terrific fighter"...
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They also break pretty regularly despite being way too soft. ;) The tang shoulders alone are a deal-breaker for me. I know, I know.... there are thousands still in use... but there were millions made.

David Stifle said:
More than likely though, the design was approved by the Government because of economic reasons, not because it was the best design they could get.
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I'm certain that you're correct. If you get a chance, read Bagwell's "Big Knives, Bowies and Battle Blades"; it includes a reprint of his article on the Ka-Bar fighting knife from SOF in the 80's. Long story short, there's plenty of room for improvement... especially when you're not trying to stamp out hundreds of thousands as cheaply as possible, in time to go fight a World War :)
 
Thanks James. In conversations with KA-BAR they admit the tangs break, but stand by their heat treatment. Evidently, the tang is partially hardened, and the reason the tangs break is the junction between the hard and soft areas. But, it is a thin, narrow tang in the first place. I made sure my tang is extremely robust. However, for the price point they are sold ($60-$120) they are a darned good knife.

I haven't read Bagwell's book, but now that you have pointed it put, I will.
 
Ive been playing with 80crv2 that I got from aldo. Looks great so far. My first blade broke (brine quench) but I was just playing anyways. Checked the grain and it looked like well heat treated 52100. Ive got another one in the works.
 
Quint, how will you be able to tell if it is a better steel than the 10X steels. Are you going to do any testing? I'm interested.
 
It has vanadium like W2, and Chromium like 52100, and a small amount of Nickel, but less than L6 or 15N20. It should have better toughness and wear resistance than a 10xx steel, but that will be shown in testing. I was looking at CruforgeV after Nick Wheeler's last chopper, and it looks like a great choice for a project like this, is relatively easy to heat treat, but is hard to make pretty when finishing. I think prettiness is low on the priority scale for this project :). I think I am going to order a bar of CruforgeV for a hard use knife.
 
David Stifle said:
Quint, how will you be able to tell if it is a better steel than the 10X steels. Are you going to do any testing? I'm interested.
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I figure I will make a couple blades to play with. It is basically a 10XX steel, it is sold as 1080+ from Alpha I think and maybe a few others. I am not sure I would be the best person to test it in a head on competition per say. I dont have the equipment to really do accurate test if you will.

I had looked at cruforgeV but its pretty much out of production so what is out there is it. I didnt want to get use to a steel then have it run out lol. Ofcourse I got use to and like W2 and thats pretty much non exsistant anymore.
 
There she is.......::rubs hands dramatically::

Looking good Dave, and like I said earlier, fixes the flaws. :D

Just FYI, this one's mine.

Moose
 
quint said:
I figure I will make a couple blades to play with. It is basically a 10XX steel, it is sold as 1080+ from Alpha I think and maybe a few others. I am not sure I would be the best person to test it in a head on competition per say. I dont have the equipment to really do accurate test if you will.

I had looked at cruforgeV but its pretty much out of production so what is out there is it. I didnt want to get use to a steel then have it run out lol. Ofcourse I got use to and like W2 and thats pretty much non exsistant anymore.
Click to expand...

Aldo has been stocking W2, and I think he has more on order. Remember when he got a bad batch? It still have it, and while I believe Aldo, I still plan to test it myself.
 
Moosez45 said:
There she is.......::rubs hands dramatically::

Looking good Dave, and like I said earlier, fixes the flaws. :D

Just FYI, this one's mine.

Moose
Click to expand...

Hi Moose, good to hear from you. Glad you like what you see so far. We're getting close now, I'll give you a yell when it's done.
 
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