A T Barr, Independence Cutlery and Fallkniven

J

J. MacDonald

Joined
Jun 8, 2000
Messages
3,140
I'm still looking for a "Big Knife". Something to take into the back country that might do everything I might ask of it (chopping, digging, prying, fighting, carving,Get Me Home Alive! etc...). I started looking at Al Mar stuff but have decided I want something more durable. I've looked at a big SOG and a big Ontario and a Cold Steel Trail Master in real life and couldn't fall in love with any of them. On the web what has most impressed me so far are the A T Barr Combat Bowie, the Independence Cutlery Company Combat model 5A1. I'd really like to stay around $300.00 but I like the steel guard and butt (I think we used to call this a pommel?) on the Independence knife although I've never owned a knife with such pronounced finger grooves.

The only other contender I've seen is a Chris Reeves Project 2 Clip Point. The drawback is that I'm not fond of an all metal design from a comfort of use standpoint. Don't want wood either from a durability standpoint.

Basically I want a 7" indestructable blade with enough weight for chopping, that holds a shaving edge no matter what I do to it. I want to be able to pry a locomotive off it's tracks without breaking the blade (or handle) and I want the knife to know instinctively where the heart of my attacker is.

For this I want to spend $300.00.

If this takes too long to figure out, I might buy a Fallkniven A1 to hold me over although it's a bit smaller than I want and somewhat mass produced (I'd rather buy American and custom if I can).

Please offer your opinions up, or alternate suggestions.
 
So far, I'm impressed with a Busse Combat Steel Heart E-handle.

Trace Rinaldi makes an awesome knife as well. I just got an Armegeddon in CPM-3V that is very impressive. An A-2 model would fit your budget pretty close.
 
Id go with Independence Custom Cutlery,Dennis is a great guy to work with, hell make a knife to your specifications. His knives are tough,look nice and are very well crafted.I own one knife from him(which Ive beaten the crap out of yet it stil comes back for more) with another on the way.Heres a link to a picture of the second knife hes made for me.Its the knife pictured last on the page.


http://pub82.ezboard.com/frazorsredoubtfrm10.showMessage?topicID=16.topic
 
Thanks for your interest in my knives. Reading over what you want your next knife to do, feel alive, you do want a Combat Model 5.

You're wondering about the finger grooves, They are made for people between 5'4"-6'3". If you fall in there it will feel great. I've never had anyone pick up one and say "I don't like it". They are always suprised at how good it fits thier hand.

I stand behind what I make. If you can damage it, I'll fix it or replace it. I just want to know what you were doing with it. What some guys have done with them, you have to be doing something real extreme.
 
AT Bar's knives kick major a$$. I "stole" a model called the Dispatcher on Ebay for under $200. The steel is incredible. I sliced paper into confetti in seconds. The knife is a fixed blade,made a few years ago. Impressed the hell outta me.
 
From the criteria you've specified, I think you are looking for a Busse Basic 7. Or, maybe one of the custom models will do ya.
You'd be seriously hard pressed to find a better performing knife, IMHO.;)

I have a Basic 5 and a 7. If I had to get rid of all my fixed blade knives but two, those would be the keepers.
 
I should have mentioned that while I'm sure that the Busse knives are well made, I prefer a clip, drop point or bowie style blade. The Busse has even less of a guard than the AT Barr combat bowie and to me, the Busse knives have no soul. It's gotta work well, but for me to part with $300 or more for a knife I might use a few times a year (unless things get much worse in this war on terrorism) it really has to speak to me. I'm also not convinced that the synthetic rubber type handles will last long enough to be passed down to the grandkids (if there ever are any).

While I'm sure I can get a great knife for the money I mentioned I'd like to spend, I'm unfortunately feeling like I'm leaning toward the Independence knife. This always happens to me. I don't make enough money to buy whatever I want, cost no object. But I am obsessed with getting the best quality I possibly can within my means in nearly all aspects of my life (makes my wife crazy sometimes). That's how my recent attempt to buy a Microtech Mini Socom at a closeout price around $100 turned into a Small Sebenzaa purchase.

Don't even talk to me about Hifi gear (the business I'm in) cause it can get real sick.

jmx
 
New to the forum, but I can inform you of one thing..I am presently in the service and have deployed several times. Recently, I deployed with one of about 4 knives I have from ICC, Dennis Phillips and I was impressed. True Story Time..I was deployed in support of the Gulf War and I broke 3 knives there. One mine and two belonging to younger troops - needless to say; I decided then that if I could, I would attempt to take Murphy's Law out. Well, I recently deployed to a location w/ a number 6 and I enjoyed the way it worked for me. The guard was great, the tanto tip was outstanding and the easy tek-lok made it simple for me to change up my gear depending on the mission we were tasked with at the time.

As one of the other member's mentioned - Dennis will work with you. I know the cost is a little over the 300...but save up and that will be a one-time purchase for you. I wish when I first came in (16 years ago), I had done that rather than buying the same stuff twice.

Take Care and remember to stay low and carry plenty of ammo - -
 
Couple of questions.

1) Is there a difference in tip strength between Model 1A/ 2A vs. Model 5A/ 5B?

2) On a model 5A vs 5B how much difference in balance. Is the 5B much more front heavy?

3) What blade cross section are the 5A/ 5B (hollow ground, chisel, ect.)?

4) Please elaborate on teh can chop on rebar on the ICC site. The picture is a bit blurry.

5) If you're going to the boonies, what do you carry?

jmx
 
1) Between flat ground Model 1,2 conpaired to Model 5, yes. Not everybody is interested in punching holes in steel drums, and ammo cans. So I make different styles for different uses.

2) The balance point on a 7" is at the guard. On a 8" it's about 1/2 in frount of the guard. If you want it more blade heavy, I just use less 416 on the butt. Remember, You can have it your way with a custom.

3) They are saber ground. Flat sided, to a flat grind, to a "thick" edge. Both sides. I don't like that grinding on one side idea.

4) At Gun shows/Knife shows. I demonstrate by choping on rebar, then cutting a business card. It's good for getting thier attention.:D

5) IMHO A black T coated 8" Combat Model 5 will do anything you could want to. The coating will wear, but you don't have to worry about it rusting, even after it wears bad. The bead-blast finish will rust, and you must keep something on it. I advise sentry solutions, I liked it so much I started selling it.
 
jmxcpter :

while I'm sure that the Busse knives are well made, I prefer a clip, drop point or bowie style blade.
Click to expand...

The new "E" series are drop points. Clip points will be much thinner and give better penetration but they are also much weaker and that doesn't sit well with some of the tasks you outlined in the above.

The Busse has even less of a guard than the AT Barr combat bowie and to me, the Busse knives have no soul.
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The guard on the Basic is indeed small, I found that I could ramp up over the guard on a heavy stab if my grip was compromised with oil/soap/fat. In regards to soul, I just go by function, can't help you with any mystical properties.

I'm also not convinced that the synthetic rubber type handles will last long enough to be passed down to the grandkids (if there ever are any).
Click to expand...

The rubber can get cut/abraded much more easily than micarta, however they are guaranteed right alongside the knife, so you do not need to be concerned about any functional damage.

In regards to the full INFI "E" series, the Steel Heart has a much more pronounced guard than the Basic #7, and has Micarta grips. If you want a heavy work knife in the 7" class, that is it as far as I can see.

-Cliff
 
I'll line up solidly behind Cliff's recommendation for a Busse Steel Heart (SH). As I read your original post spec'ing out the blade you want, I kept thinking "This describes a Steel Heart all the way!" Especially needing something to pry a train off the track for $300 (the retail price of a new SH). The 1/4" thick INFI that Jerry Busse uses to make the Steel Heart is definitely in the range of "sharpened prybar" knives.

I hear what you're saying about the Busses lacking "soul". I agree that their looks can't compare with the panache of some blades from Hossom, Lamey, Clark, Barr, Fisk, Rinaldi, and other fine custom makers, of which there are so very many. But the beauty of the Busse blades is found by your hand (not your eye) as you give the beast everything you've got and it comes laughing back for more.

Re: handle security - Busse makes appearances at various shows around the country and I'd suggest handling the SH at a show to see how it "speaks" to your hand. The quilted micarta ergo handles currently used on Busse's combat line are pretty secure. A few minutes of handling the knife should tell you what you need to know about the security of the grip in your particular hand.

While I appreciate the qualities of custom made blades, in this instance I'd recommend the semi-commercial Busse Steel Heart as a knife that absolutely will not fail you due to being bombproof. Your grandkids can give it to their grandkids. It's that indestructible.
 
While I've been trying to follow a stylized version of what my ultimate survival knife would be (in my head), both your arguements are most convincing. Mr. Stamp's tests are nearly overwhelming. Cliff, I've read a few of your tests and it's hard to argue your conclusions. You are one focused and determined SOB. While I'm not in Love with the look of a Steel Heart and I can't fiind a place to hold one, I must admit to Mr Busse that I'm certainly starting to develop an interest.

I got to hold a Chris Reeves Project 2 again today and while I'm sure it's nearly indestructible with a good blade to boot, it just doesn't seem comfortable to me.

I must admit that part of my bias against the Busse knives was about the rubber style grips. I didn't realize that the Steel Heart was available with Micarta grips. While I'm still not visually stimulated by the look, I do realize it's design strengths from a structural standpoint. Very strong. I'm still concerned by the lack of a finger guard, but I'm coming around.

Mr Busse, I may fall in love with one of your knives yet.

jmx

PS: I certainly could have bought a prettier EDC than the recent purchase of a plain Small Sebenza for the money (like the William Henry T10-CF I already own!), but function won out over form. I predict that this will happen again in my fixed knife purchase.
 
jmxcpter :

I got to hold a Chris Reeves Project 2 again today and while I'm sure it's nearly indestructible with a good blade to boot, it just doesn't seem comfortable to me.
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When I first held a Project I had one of the strongest negative reactions I have ever had about a knife. The checkered grip screamed uncomfortable and a bit of cutting, chopping and stabbing convinced me that this was indeed the case. However we are an adaptable race and pushing through the pain of the first weeks of use the grip stopped bothering me and I began to appreciate its strong features like incredible security even with a compromised grip, and the ability to grip up on the smooth part for fine cutting, and back on the checkered part for heavy chopping. It is hardly the ideal grip shape, however it does have its advantages that will come to you with use.



I must admit that part of my bias against the Busse knives was about the rubber style grips.
Click to expand...

The amusing thing about the rubber is that it can be easily heat sealed. I found this out when I tried to light mine on fire. It didn't burn easily and some prodding closed up several cuts that I made earlier. I would prefer it to Kraton and the like, however like you I would get Micarta if I could.

I didn't realize that the Steel Heart was available with Micarta grips.
Click to expand...

Micarta is standard on the Combat line. As RokJok noted, the grips are checkered now and as with any grip the ideal method is to handle them before purchase. Keep in mind however that not everything is obvious from a simple squeeze. Aside from the strength of the warrenty, if you do buy it and after using it for a few weeks decide its not for you, I don't see you as having much trouble in selling it. The experience would easily be worth the few dollars you would be out in shipping and such. All knife use should result in an improvement in quality of the next purchase.

-Cliff
 
Dozier will do his knives in A2 if you ask and then wait 3-4 months. May charge you an extra $20 or something.

He has two knives that sorta fit your needs:
1. Bowie (7", from memory)
2. Ranger (~5-3/4" to 6-1/2")

Bob doesn't have the Bowie on his web page, and Larry at KnifeArt must have sold the one he had. So I can't find a pic of the Bowie, but his wife Linda will send you a sketch if you are interested. It looks just like a Dozier micarta handle, sizeable like a Ranger, with a clipped point Bowie blade ... imagine that. Probably out of 1/4" stock, but if not that could be an option. A2 at Rc60 will hold a very good edge near that of D2 and be noticeably tougher than D2. Unless you do stupid $#!+ with it like a pry bar, you don't need a differentially heat treated blade.

Alternatively, if you like the Ranger knife, have him do it in A2 and a bit longer than normal, to 7". That'll probably add $40 to his standard price of $315, not bad. I like the lighter weight, stick tang lightweight Ranger myself. But the full tang model feels like a tank in a good way. Very hefty and solid.

http://www.dozierknives.com/

~~~~~~~~~~~

On subject of Chris Reeve one-piece knives: He does A2 at Rc55-57, so they'll be tough, easy to resharpen in field, but edge holding will suffer noticeably vs. Rc60 for slicing chores. If you like these, but are reluctant about knurled handle, consider a wrap of tennis racquet grip tape...tough, cheap, replaceable, comfortable.
 
You've just described, almost absolutely perfectly, the Busse Steel Heart 2E!

BTW, while I agree Busses aren't the most beautiful knives aesthetically, once you use one for a while, you will see its soul ;) .
 
I do think either Dozier model mentioned would be worth the wait. Incredible knives.., the heat treat is masterful!


"Hunters seek what they [WANT].., Seekers hunt what they [NEED"
 
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