A touchy subject?

M

Mike Turber

Joined
Oct 2, 1998
Messages
5,461
It has been brought up before, and I already know the answer, but what is the AKTI position on autos?

Can we expect AKTI to help educate in this area?

Currently the laws that are on the books are very vague and somewhat antiquated. We all here know that autos are not that big a deal but the in the "public eye" they are arch enemy number two, after automatic guns.

Here in Florida we are lucky that autos are legal in every aspect yet others are not so fortunate.

My thoughts are that AKTI has many other things which are a priority right now and that fighting a possible loosing battle is not in the cards.

I do know that Benchmade has researched the subject thoroughly with their own lawyers when they started their line of autos and hopefully much of that info will trickle down to AKTI.

In summary what is AKTI's position on autos?

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Best Regards,
Mike Turber
BladeForums Site Owner and Administrator
Do it! Do it right! Do it right NOW!
www.wowinc.com

 
Whoa!! hold on a sec there Mike, you mean to tell me that all those autos I've been drooling over are legal for me to own!! Im not military or civil service, and I thought It was illegal for us "normal folk" to own them..... Could you clarify this, as I would like to obtain some before the legislators change their minds....
 
Here is the standard which most people use to ship. This law involves the autos in interstate commerce.

(1) to civilian or Armed Forces supply or procurement officers and employees of the Federal Government ordering, procuring, or purchasing such knives in connection with the activities of the Federal Government; (2) to supply or procurement officers of the National Guard, the Air National guard, or militia of a state, territory or the District of Columbia ordering, procuring, or purchasing such knives in the connection with the activities of such organization;
(3) to supply or procurement officers or employees of the municipal government of the District of Columbia or the government of any State or Territory, or any county, city or other political subdivision of a State or Territory; (4) to manufacturers of such knives or bona fide dealers therein in connection with any shipment made pursuant of an order from any person designated in paragraphs (1), (2), and (3).

Based on section 3, as long as you work for the government of any state, county or city you qualify. This is the grey area I keep talking about. This means a meter reader can order an auto according to the above.

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Best Regards,
Mike Turber
BladeForums Site Owner and Administrator
Do it! Do it right! Do it right NOW!
www.wowinc.com


[This message has been edited by Mike Turber (edited 22 June 1999).]
 
Mike,

Your thoughts on Autos are right on. AKTI needs to fight battles we are pretty sure we can win. Being a new organization we need some victories.

We do not have anything specific on our targeting radar at the moment. I fly back to Chicago tomorrow to attend an AKTI board meeting and our annual meeting. We will be discussing all our aspects to set some action targets.
 
An idea I've thrown around before . . . .

Repealing any jurisdiction's switchblade law would be much too logical. Hopeless. That's the wisdom of people who have more experience and more investment than I have.

What about a terribly moderate change in the federal switchblade law, to exempt the movement of domestic switchblades between states where there is not state law being violated? That would ratify what the jungle telegraph says is current non-enforcement practice, and not endanger anybody's body parts.


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- JKM
www.chaicutlery.com
 
Why not start with making possesion a misdemeanor instead of a felony in most States.At least its a step in the right direction.
Bob
 
Bob - Pleae keep in mind that AKTI doesn't make laws. At best, we can influence laws.

CJ is correct in that it would be to our (yours and mine) advantage to focus our efforts at this time on stopping new laws from "coming" while trying to change public opinion about knives.

These laws are made by people that are afraid. Many of these fears are unrealistic. Once a greater understanding about knives is in place, current laws will be easier to explore.
sal
 
Hi Sal
I know the AKTI doesn't make the laws. I only meant that lessoning the severity of the punishment for auto possesion is a rational jump off point rather then calling for the repeals of the current laws. With todays anti weapons hysteria no sane elected official is going to advocate legal switchblades. I also know the AKTI should become more established and stable before tackling an issue like the dreaded switchblade.Lets face it in most non knife peoples minds switchblades are the ultimate evil weapon.
Bob
 
I've shown autos to a fair number of "non-knife" people, and a lot of those "non-knife" people were startled, and a lot of them were fascinated, and a good half of them didn't know that there was any legal problem with the mechanism, and, when told there was, said "But WHY?!?!? That's silly!"


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- JKM
www.chaicutlery.com
 
I heard a story about a guy defending the use of knives in the landmark 1958 law on autos. The story goes that he pulled out a 110 and showed he could open it up as fast as any auto. Anyone else here this story?

Also if anyone has ever met Sal he has the fastest knife draw I have ever seen.

I asked him in Las Vegas why Spyderco does not make autos. He pulled a Military out of his pocket so fast I could not see the draw and asked me "Why do you need an auto?".

I was impressed and dropped the question quickly!

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Best Regards,
Mike Turber
BladeForums Site Owner and Administrator
Do it! Do it right! Do it right NOW!
www.wowinc.com

 
I believe that James is correct in trying to argue rationally against an emotional response. not realisic. Especially for a young budding organization.

I did some investigation regarding autos some years ago. I learned that a large auto, say 6" blade always startles and produces fear. A small 1" auto always surprized (as opposed to startled) and produced a "that's cute" response. 3" was about the crossover.

The real issue here is size, not mechanism, but even that is a rational argument.

I believe it would be wise to begin grass roots. Think of the average family in the average neighborhood and what they must think of knives. Think of where they get their influence. Think of how we (AKTI) can educate them to what is true about knives rather then the fear created by Hollywood and news media.

Also keep in mind that knives are not guns. 99.99% of the time a knife is used, it is used as a cutting tool. Knives and guns do not deal with the same issues. One cannot accidentally "stab" their neighbors while "cleaning their knife".

Yes, many people that like knives also like guns......and cars, and many other things. AKTI is for knives.

Mike, the retrieval method that I use for a folder is practiced, as with any developed skill. I wouldn't demo it except at a knife show.

Let's start with uniting and creating a common voice. Educating the above mentioned normal American family to the truth. Knives are unique. They have endured time. They have developed and evolved all over the world in many forms. There is nothing quite like a knife in all of it's ramifications. Let's see if we can put it in it's truthful place with appreciation, respect and understanding.

The average knife ELU is too far removed. It is only the knife enthusiast that will be attracted to and understand AKTI and its goals. The very same group that will make AKTI work....you.

sal
 
It is good "missionary" work to show your autos to anybody who will stand it, in a slow, friendly, and civilized manner. I'd suggest practicing and demonstrating the controlled opening technique. This won't work with an OTF, by the way. Instead of gripping the knife insecurely and pushing that button and letting it SNAP open, hold the knife with your fingers all the way around the handle, and push the button, and let the blade slip past your fingers, dull spine first.

People who haven't seen an auto very often will frequently JUMP when you open it, even if you say "I am going to push the button on this here knife, and it will snap open." It's a strange phenomenon. Somne folks seem to think it's a projectile weapon or something.

The knife to compare to an auto, in explaining why the laws are just plain silly, is not a modern one-hand sport-utility folder. That might give somebody the wrong idea about one-hand folders. The knife to compare to an auto is a common kitchen paring knife. 3"-4" of blade, does the same work or the same damage, depending on the will of its owner. A bit of cardboard and tape and a few minutes, and you have an improvised sheath. It's concealable in the front pants pocket, among other places, and it's at least as fast as an auto, and doesn't have that annoying click when you're trying to sneak up on that apple. And it's obviously ban-proof, else people would have to stop eating, so it shows the absolute futility of the switchblade laws.

To reiterate, switchblade laws are silly and futile. No rational case can be made for them. But the conventional wisdom is that repeal is impossible because lawmakers would be afraid of what people would think of them if they did. AAAAAAARRRRGGGGGHHHHHH!!!!!!!!


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- JKM
www.chaicutlery.com
 
I think the best route for thr repealing of switchblade laws is through the courts. Personally I believe that these laws are discriminatory and create seperate classes of citizens, government and civilian, one which has inherently more rights. Also, banning autos discriminates against those who do not have all full function in their hands. This includes everyone who has arthritis, or has had an injury of sorts. They are unable to draw a knife effectively, and would be at a disadvantage against an experienced flicker, or would be in bad shape if they had to make an emergency cut and couldn't because their thumb does not rotate too well.


My Mother suffers from rheumatoid arthritis, and has a heckuva time opening knives. When she saw my friends (El cheapo) Colt auto, she wanted one till she found out they were illegal. She asked why. I had to tell her that it was "West Side Story's" fault.

YEK
 
This is a great discussion.

Switchblades are seen as the weapons of criminals, therefore conventional wisdom says is you make them more accessible you are putting weapons into the hands of criminals and thus being soft on crime.

The logic is convoluted, manipulative, self fulfilling and frightening in its effectiveness in scaring legislators silly. Education is the key for autos.

It is also key to understand voters. W.I.I.F.M. What's In It For Me. We have to educate the public that they are damaged by these laws. That approach can be creative. I was not impacted by taxes on cigarettes as a non-smoker, yet I voted against the tax because I was concerned with what might be taxed next. If people can see some real utility being stripped from their lives by the passage of these laws we might get a definition altered here, a law repealed there.

The reduction of a felony to a misdemeanor was a very interesting thought.

Still, as far as AKTI is concerned. We need victories before taking on Goliath.



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CJ Buck
Buck Knives, Inc.
AKTI Member #PR00003


 
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