Advantage of "Non Stainless" Steels?

[scdub]

Yes, the only steels that beat it have significantly lower wear resistance

So then, no.
(Again - just talking about toughness - not in relation to wear resistance…)

 

[DocJD]

AEBL for almost anything

They should have named it ABLE !

 

[David Mary]

So then, no.

scdub I think you are splitting hairs. Since we’re talking about blade steels I guess you get a pass. But AEBL is nearly as tough as 8670 which is renowned as possibly the second toughest blade steel next to S7.

 

[Crag the Brewer]

They should have named it ABLE !

yeah, it's Worst feature is it's name!!!

 

[DocJD]

In the following (edge retention vs. toughness, from knifesteelnerds.com / Larrin), the blue steels are stainless, the orange ones carbon. You move your eye right, you get harder steels, or up, and you get tougher steels with less hardness.

The orange curve shows you "best in class" knife steels, wrt to edge retention vs. toughness tradeoff. Except for Magnacut, they are all carbon steels, non-stainless.

Good toughness doesn't only mean less prone to catastrophic failure, but more importantly, less chipping.

For example, you want a to pick the most wear resistant steel at good toughness ? You should pick Maxamet or Rex 121 (both carbon steels, non-stainless).

There's a reason I make AEBL choppers and swords.

I don't see AEBL, labeled on the chart . Where would it fall , compared to 3V , for example ?

 

[Synov]

I don't see AEBL, labeled on the chart . Where would it fall , compared to 3V , for example ?

AEBL would be the leftmost blue dot, so same toughness as 3V.

 

[XJ-linux]

I for one think that carbon steel looks better with age. I like patina.

 

[David Mary]

AEBL would be the leftmost blue dot, so same toughness as 3V.

AEBL is nearly 8 ft lbs tougher at 60-61 RC than 3V at the same hardness

 

[DocJD]

AEBL would be the leftmost blue dot, so same toughness as 3V.

Thanks !

So lower ER for AEBL , at same toughness . By the chart .

3V still better it appears ? Except less stainless .

 

[David Mary]

DocJD I should have quoted you as well in my reply above.

There is a reason I tell people asking me for big blades in 3V that they should choose AEBL instead. Less money and better suited to big blades (ie edge is not degraded by abrasion but by impact hence choosing a tougher steel rather than a more wear resistant one). Insisting on a 3V chopper or sword instead of AEBL is, in my opinion, kind of like insisting on a Lamborghini for off-roading instead of a pickup truck.

 

[Crag the Brewer]

Thanks !

So lower ER for AEBL , at same toughness . By the chart .

3V still better it appears ? Except less stainless .

AEBL is still pretty tough at high hardness, 3V drops

 

[DocJD]

AEBL is nearly 8 ft lbs tougher at 60-61 RC than 3V at the same hardness

I don't see that reflected on the chart for ER . But I might be missing something ?

Edit : I posted this before reading some of the above posts that relate .

 

[David Mary]

My comment was in reference to my opinion that AEBL is a better choice for large blades intended to withstand frequent edge impacts.

 

[Synov]

AEBL is nearly 8 ft lbs tougher at 60-61 RC than 3V at the same hardness

According to Larrin's data, 3V is 30-35 ft-lbs in that range and AEBL is 33-38. He has one outlier result in that range showing 41, so maybe that's what you're referring to.

 

[David Mary]

Okay thanks.

So to recap, AEBL is tougher than 3V at the same hardness, my numerical oversight notwithstanding (apologies for that nonetheless!). It remains my choice for a big blade intended to withstand frequent edge impacts.

 

[ferider]

I like AEB-L too. I've tried AEB-L and 3V from 2 makers who use both, and do like 3V from either even more, unless I cut a lemon or such

Note that the terms hardness and edge retention in the above charts are not fully interchangeable.

 

[Crag the Brewer]

I like AEB-L too. I've tried AEB-L and 3V from 2 makers who use both, and do like 3V from either even more, unless I cut a lemon or such

Note that the terms hardness and edge retention in the above charts are not fully interchangeable.

That's very true what you said...... Run AEB-L @64, and run 3V @64 and you will notice big differences

 

[eveled]

If stainless has made such great advances and is now equal to high carbon steel. Why aren’t tools made from stainless steel?

I don’t think I’ve ever seen a stainless steel hammer wrench or chisel. I’ve never seen a stainless steel anvil.

 

[DocJD]

asking me for big blades in 3V that they should choose AEBL instead

If I asked you , I'd trust your judgment and experience ! As always .

 

[Alberta Ed]

High carbon steel knives will remain useful -- I prize mine -- but they are being displaced by higher-end powder steels such as Magnacut that offer as good or better toughness, superior edge holding and stainless qualities.