- Joined
- Aug 23, 2020
- Messages
- 2,427
Give MC a try. Cruwear, 14c28n are also missing from your list.
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The BladeForums.com 2024 Traditional Knife is ready to order! See this thread for details: https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/bladeforums-2024-traditional-knife.2003187/
Price is $300 ea (shipped within CONUS). If you live outside the US, I will contact you after your order for extra shipping charges.
Order here: https://www.bladeforums.com/help/2024-traditional/ - Order as many as you like, we have plenty.
Am I missing out on some steels? Steel talk.
- Thread starter LostCause
- Start date
- Joined
- May 9, 2002
- Messages
- 12,607
In full disclosure, I haven't used it to the point that I have had to completely rework the edge of a knife in that steel, but when I bought my SHF, it had a bit of a misgrind. I ended up sending it in for them to fix a couple issues, but before I did that I tried smoothing out the rough spots on a whim while sitting at my desk. I had a pretty well worn diamond hone, old medium oiled whetstone, and bit of loaded leather strop.
Using just those simple tools, I was able to bring the edge out to hair popping, and it never really developed a stubborn wire edge like many steels develop. After that, I proceeded to lay some trim around the flooring in two rooms of my home. I used the SHF for every cutting, scoring, and carving task (think whittling out to fit the crown modeling at the base board).
Not a scratch, not a ding, not a rough spot, chip, or roll. I wasn't going hardcore on a knife I just spent over $500 on, but I did use it hard enough to feel that I gave the Magnacut a good enough workout to feel that I performed up to it's general hype.
- Joined
- Jul 23, 2015
- Messages
- 16,138
Wait
What is
Never mind, I just asked ChatGPT: it said this (I’d never heard of this steel before, sounds really interesting!)
**S390 steel** is a high-performance, premium-grade **powder metallurgy tool steel** known for its exceptional wear resistance, toughness, and edge retention. It belongs to the family of **high-speed steels (HSS)**, often used in industrial applications that require cutting tools to withstand high temperatures, abrasive environments, and heavy-duty use.
### Key Features of S390 Steel:
1. **Composition**:
- S390 contains a high amount of carbon, tungsten, and vanadium, making it a high-carbon, high-alloy steel. These elements contribute to its hardness and wear resistance.
- Typical composition includes:
- **Carbon**: Around 2.0%
- **Chromium**: Around 4.8%
- **Vanadium**: Around 5.0%
- **Tungsten**: Around 10.5%
- **Molybdenum**: Around 2.0%
- **Cobalt**: Around 8.0%
2. **Hardness**: S390 can achieve extremely high hardness levels (around 64-68 HRC) after heat treatment, which is essential for maintaining sharp cutting edges over prolonged periods of use.
3. **Wear Resistance**: Thanks to the high amount of vanadium carbides in its structure, S390 offers superb wear resistance, making it ideal for cutting, drilling, or other tasks where the tool is subjected to friction and abrasion.
4. **Edge Retention**: S390 holds its edge exceptionally well, even under heavy use or in challenging environments, which is why it's often used for industrial cutting tools and in high-end knife making.
5. **Applications**:
- **Cutting Tools**: S390 is used for making high-end cutting tools such as drills, saw blades, and industrial cutters that require prolonged edge sharpness.
- **Knives**: Due to its hardness and wear resistance, S390 is also highly prized by custom knife makers for producing premium knives, especially those designed for heavy-duty or extreme-use scenarios.
### Pros and Cons of S390 Steel:
- **Pros**:
- Exceptional hardness and edge retention.
- Outstanding wear resistance.
- Good high-temperature stability, making it suitable for cutting tools.
- **Cons**:
- More difficult to sharpen due to its extreme hardness.
- Not as corrosion-resistant as other stainless steels, meaning it requires care to avoid rust.
- Can be brittle if not heat-treated properly, which may affect its toughness.
In summary, S390 is a top-tier, highly specialized steel used in applications requiring extreme performance, making it popular in industries where durability and precision are paramount.
What is
??
Never mind, I just asked ChatGPT: it said this (I’d never heard of this steel before, sounds really interesting!)
**S390 steel** is a high-performance, premium-grade **powder metallurgy tool steel** known for its exceptional wear resistance, toughness, and edge retention. It belongs to the family of **high-speed steels (HSS)**, often used in industrial applications that require cutting tools to withstand high temperatures, abrasive environments, and heavy-duty use.
### Key Features of S390 Steel:
1. **Composition**:
- S390 contains a high amount of carbon, tungsten, and vanadium, making it a high-carbon, high-alloy steel. These elements contribute to its hardness and wear resistance.
- Typical composition includes:
- **Carbon**: Around 2.0%
- **Chromium**: Around 4.8%
- **Vanadium**: Around 5.0%
- **Tungsten**: Around 10.5%
- **Molybdenum**: Around 2.0%
- **Cobalt**: Around 8.0%
2. **Hardness**: S390 can achieve extremely high hardness levels (around 64-68 HRC) after heat treatment, which is essential for maintaining sharp cutting edges over prolonged periods of use.
3. **Wear Resistance**: Thanks to the high amount of vanadium carbides in its structure, S390 offers superb wear resistance, making it ideal for cutting, drilling, or other tasks where the tool is subjected to friction and abrasion.
4. **Edge Retention**: S390 holds its edge exceptionally well, even under heavy use or in challenging environments, which is why it's often used for industrial cutting tools and in high-end knife making.
5. **Applications**:
- **Cutting Tools**: S390 is used for making high-end cutting tools such as drills, saw blades, and industrial cutters that require prolonged edge sharpness.
- **Knives**: Due to its hardness and wear resistance, S390 is also highly prized by custom knife makers for producing premium knives, especially those designed for heavy-duty or extreme-use scenarios.
### Pros and Cons of S390 Steel:
- **Pros**:
- Exceptional hardness and edge retention.
- Outstanding wear resistance.
- Good high-temperature stability, making it suitable for cutting tools.
- **Cons**:
- More difficult to sharpen due to its extreme hardness.
- Not as corrosion-resistant as other stainless steels, meaning it requires care to avoid rust.
- Can be brittle if not heat-treated properly, which may affect its toughness.
In summary, S390 is a top-tier, highly specialized steel used in applications requiring extreme performance, making it popular in industries where durability and precision are paramount.
- Joined
- Apr 25, 2007
- Messages
- 3,422
AEB-L (or any of the family of similar steels) with the right high hardness heat treat is a really great steel. Well worth a try. These steels work great and are easy to sharpen/maintain. Can use whatever abrasive you like, no need for diamond/CBN with this stuff.
MagnaCut is great if you have the right expectations for it. Keep in mind it was designed to be basically like a stainless 4V and it makes a lot of sense in use.
CPM 15V from the Triple B/Spyderco models is great, one of my top favorites. It's the best of the high carbide volume/wear resistance tool steels for me. Not super easy to find at the moment though as there are no knives in current production.
CPM M4 is nice stuff. It's not a personal favorite, but still very good stuff and well worth a try. I'd say CPM 4V would also be worth a try in this range.
MagnaCut is great if you have the right expectations for it. Keep in mind it was designed to be basically like a stainless 4V and it makes a lot of sense in use.
CPM 15V from the Triple B/Spyderco models is great, one of my top favorites. It's the best of the high carbide volume/wear resistance tool steels for me. Not super easy to find at the moment though as there are no knives in current production.
CPM M4 is nice stuff. It's not a personal favorite, but still very good stuff and well worth a try. I'd say CPM 4V would also be worth a try in this range.
ferider
Platinum Member
- Joined
- Jun 20, 2018
- Messages
- 12,879
No, you are missing nothing. 3V, K390, M390, 13C27 (close to AEB-L), and S90V are all you'll ever need.
Now go and see if you can find another cool fixed blade
Last edited:
Interestingly - I'm in search for one.Now go and see if you can find another cool fixed blade
I think 14C28N is next.
AntDog
Gold Member
- Joined
- Apr 3, 2001
- Messages
- 26,705
I looooove that shit! That’s my jam for stainless.
Also you have to remedy that no INFI thing, stat.
S390 is a beast of steel. I have a custom made knife in that steel and it's different from anything else I've encountered.
It can chop into bone with absolutely no edge damage without having thick grind. You can whittle off small flakes of metal from steel nail without edge damage. I use it to chop wood and various shit with it. I chopped coconuts for fun with it.
Holds an edge seemingly forever. I only ever had slight damage to the edge when it flew out of my hand by accident and sticked into the ground, and it hit the rock when it stabbed into dirt. However, damage was very minimal and I took it out on diamond stone with no problems (about 20mins total I think). But it really does feel different than other steels on the stone. I also never had issues with burr with that steel. It easily takes wicked sharp edge and keeps it for a long time.
My knife was heat treated to be at 66/67 HRC, maybe that's the reason?
It also patinas differently than other steels, you see bunch of weird colors under different angles of light. It doesn't take patina very easy and it doesn't pit from my experience.
It also feels super agressive when cutting. Possibly due to hardness or it might be just in my head?
Anyways this steel indeed performs and is one of my favorites. This custom knife became my go-to user on my property as it just performs. No production knife company uses it, and if they did - I doubt they could nail the HT as well as custom maker that uses it a lot.
AntDog
Gold Member
- Joined
- Apr 3, 2001
- Messages
- 26,705
Yessir, one and only source.
I would recommend SR101 but apparently their heat treat ovens broke during covid and nobody can repair them now for whatever reason and the steel has been “retired”.
I say that in quotes because they keep releasing more knives in it since it’s “forever retirement, never to be seen again”. It’s like the Motley Crue of steel retirements.
There is a thread from Sept 8 of 2020 that Dr Larrin discusses it, and has a couple of articles attached. I was not familiar with it, so I was Googling it and found the thread. So many steel choices!
- Joined
- Jul 23, 2015
- Messages
- 16,138
scdub
Basic Member
- Joined
- May 29, 2004
- Messages
- 2,945
5160 is great. Not necessarily a steel that you’re missing out on, but something to be aware of in case you find a knife/maker that uses it.
It takes a very keen edge and can be run quite thin due to very high toughness. It’s comparatively inexpensive and available, and is relatively easy to HT without lots of expensive machinery. It doesn’t have much stain resistance, but I don’t need stainless for most fixed blades. I’ve carried an uncoated 5160 blade on the CA coast, 40 hours per week, for about 17 years now. While it develops some surface rust occasionally, it doesn’t pit, and hasn’t been a problem…
What I LOVE about 5160 is resharpening it. In fact, just today I was lucky enough to find several fallen trees to clear, including one that was very dry and hard - took me 37 minutes to get through. (Hardest tree I’ve chopped yet actually, Madrone(?), so I took a little video. You can tell it’s hard by the sound, the way the axe sticks after one of the blows, and the fairly small wood chip size).
My axe (Council Velvi-Cut in 5160 - and thinned out considerably by me) took a tiny chip on the toe, as well as some rolling and dulling along the edge. So, when I got back to my office, I whipped out a coarse sandstone rock that I flattened, cut off the damaged edge, and put a completely fresh apex on in about 4 minutes. I spent probably another 3 minutes going through another 3 homemade sharpening rocks and a diamond strop, and she’s back to hair-popping. Usually I skip the coarse stones and it sharpens up extremely quickly.
It takes a very keen edge and can be run quite thin due to very high toughness. It’s comparatively inexpensive and available, and is relatively easy to HT without lots of expensive machinery. It doesn’t have much stain resistance, but I don’t need stainless for most fixed blades. I’ve carried an uncoated 5160 blade on the CA coast, 40 hours per week, for about 17 years now. While it develops some surface rust occasionally, it doesn’t pit, and hasn’t been a problem…
What I LOVE about 5160 is resharpening it. In fact, just today I was lucky enough to find several fallen trees to clear, including one that was very dry and hard - took me 37 minutes to get through. (Hardest tree I’ve chopped yet actually, Madrone(?), so I took a little video. You can tell it’s hard by the sound, the way the axe sticks after one of the blows, and the fairly small wood chip size).
My axe (Council Velvi-Cut in 5160 - and thinned out considerably by me) took a tiny chip on the toe, as well as some rolling and dulling along the edge. So, when I got back to my office, I whipped out a coarse sandstone rock that I flattened, cut off the damaged edge, and put a completely fresh apex on in about 4 minutes. I spent probably another 3 minutes going through another 3 homemade sharpening rocks and a diamond strop, and she’s back to hair-popping. Usually I skip the coarse stones and it sharpens up extremely quickly.
It holds an edge way longer, it also basically doesn't burr and it has more edge stability. It is worth mentioning that is feels way different when you sharpen as you can feel that S390 kinda resists the diamond stone as it's more of sliding feel as compared ro 3V that you can feel stone cutting it. Diamond is a must have for sharpening S390.
However, I'd say that 3V is tougher because after impacting a rock by accident, S390 had very tiny chipping (3mm lenght of blade where just very edge of apex was missing) while 3V just had edge reflect light on place where it impacted a rock when the same happened. I used both knives to chop into bone, 3V also takes no damage but does lose an edge fast while S390 doesn't. And 3V will kinda roll when you try doing stupid stuff such as cutting off tiny flakes of steel from a steel nail.
But my most impressive thing done by 3V was accidentally hitting a nail with it and chopping it into 2 without visible edge damage (it was a thin nail, and I only noticed where it happened as that part of the blade was the only one to not cut paper without tearing it). I didn't do this with S390 and I won't even attempt to, as hitting metal with something at 66/67 HRC seems as very dumb idea.
Also worth mentioning that 3V knife that I have is Cold Steel AK47 field knife (old made in Italy version) which is significantly thicker behind the edge than this custom S390 blade.
This AK47 knife used to be my go-to, but ever since I got this custom - I use the custom. Because it just does the same as the AK47, but does it better. Cuts better, stays sharp longer, can be brought back with just stropping and so on. And for some reason S390 just "bites" into everything more aggressively, cuts meat and tendons exceptionally well for some reason too.
And finally, from my experience 3V takes no patina, but will corrode and it tends to pit once it does. S390 doesn't take patina easily, but it happens with time. And it's yet to corrode on me.
I really love both steels. I'm yet to try something such as Delta 3V or custom 3V, but even production 3V works nice for me, just - S390 blows it out of the water when it comes to performance. Granted, it is S390 custom from a maker that uses it a lot, so I think that performance gap would be smaller had I compared it to something such as Delta 3V. But it's just guessing from my part.
Chronovore
Gold Member
- Joined
- Aug 29, 2019
- Messages
- 11,239
I'm surprised to not see 14C28N on the list. It has a fun history, having been specifically developed for Kershaw by Sandvik. It has excellent toughness, good corrosion resistance, and decent edge retention. Sure,
Crag the Brewer
is right that it does better when run a little harder than what has been typical in production knives. Still, it always seemed to perform well enough for me and always tended to stand out versus other budget steels in production knives. It's a joy to use and easy to sharpen. Current offerings from WE (Civivi) and Kubey are among the best budget knives to have been made in 14C28N.While I prefer 14C28N to its sisters, Nitro-V is decent and seems to be getting more popular. I've been seeing it in more customs lately. On the production end, it seems to have become the new budget staple for Kizer. If you want to try AEB-L, get something from
David Mary
!
- Joined
- Oct 18, 2018
- Messages
- 7,539
A previous quote from Larrin.... "Personally I would probably prefer K390, 10V, or Vanadis 8, and those steels can also be heat treated to 66+ Rc if desired. S390 and other high speed steels are not as optimized"
It's edge retention is around k390, but less tough than A11/10v
Maximumbob54
Gold Member
- Joined
- Jun 10, 2024
- Messages
- 1,073
Any Spyderco in K390 from Seki City. I look forward to trying M4 here soon compared to the K390 in my Delica and Stretch. I did upgrade to sharpening with diamonds a while back and after an initial learning curve you couldn't pay me to go back.
lambertiana
Gold Member
- Joined
- Jul 7, 2000
- Messages
- 9,205
I would add K390, Cruwear, and CTS-XHP to the list.