Another Burnishing Thread.

A lot of the time it really comes down to the leather being used, as to how well it will burnish. I know you use the Wickett & Craig stuff so that should be good, but some parts of the hide can be a bit spongier than other sections.

Otherwise I concur with the rest of the good folk here, and Paul, nice sir :)
and Eldergeek, that is sleek....(hey I'm a poet ;) )

and Ken, you certainly do an excellent job of burnishing!

Myself I do use the Gum Trag, my rote of work goes something like this

Glue down the pieces, let set, trim close with a knife

Sand down to needed width, sand down a radius along the edge

Dye to match the rest of the sheath, while the dye is drying I'll rub/burnish with the bone folder (be sure it is a smooth portion of the bone folder, I've sanded off the mfg name and # on mine)

Once the dye has had time to dry and after burnishing, I'll had sand paper with 1000 grit, possibly dye a second time (see we don't just dye once all the time lol )

Burnish again and apply some Gum Trag, while that is still damp I'll burnish and when dry I'll lightly sand paper and apply a little more Gum Trag and burnish a last time.

Once the sheath is done, I apply a coat of Atom balm wax and brush it to a final finish.

G2
 
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Actually my leather can be any mix of W&C, Hermann Oak or an import. I think all of the leather on the red sheath is HO and my daughters is both HO and import.

In any case, I do believe that the density plays a part. I have random spots that kind of stay rough (not rough really, more like it's not polishable). Doesn't matter what I do it seems. I've tried water, spit, burnishing by hand and power burnishing, beeswax and paraffin wax, all sorts of combinations. I've tried "filling" the bits with melted wax (both kinds) and burnishing seems to pull it right back out. Much of the edge looks good, but yeah, some little sections seem unaffected by my efforts. The glue line seems wavy even though the overall thickness remains consistent.

I'm gonna keep trying, but it may just be futile. Maybe I'll try a section of each leather alone to try and rule one of them out. I can't believe that I'm doing something wrong. I feel compelled to mention that I'm plenty happy with with my normal burnishing. I'd hate for a customer to read this and be concerned that they will get an inferior product. As Skystorm said, this falls out of the bounds of normal expectations. Given how long it takes to do, I doubt I'd ever be really happy with the return! :)
 
You know, I also keep wondering if the glue plays a role. I know that rubber cement plays havoc with normal burnishing. I wonder if contact cement is affecting my results in some way due to the way I apply it, or from not clamping or something intangible.
 
Strig, the above step by step by Gary is the way he taught me back in 2001/02.

There have been a whole bunch of different processes come by since, but his way has been my way for that long.

It sure brought back a lot of memories reading that, and to think I'm still doing it that way today. :)
 
Strigamort said:
You know, I also keep wondering if the glue plays a role. I know that rubber cement plays havoc with normal burnishing. I wonder if contact cement is affecting my results in some way due to the way I apply it, or from not clamping or something intangible.
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You will always have glue lines, no matter how thin you apply the glue. Nice even application is one way of keeping those lines even. But, I like the lines, gives the sheath a nifty look to me so I dont worry about them.
 
How neat is that? If nothing else, it's nice to hear that this brought back a nice memory. :)

It seems that I found my limit with how the edge was initially finished. I think all of the burnishing in the world wouldn't make a difference.

Okay, so in the interest of constantly trying to improve or just trying new things I said eff it and took the sheath to my belt sander. I evened everything up to square edges first using my 120 grit ceramic belt, then a well worn belt of a higher grit. Can't remember the abrasive size as all the lettering is long gone inside the belt. Interestingly the belt started burnishing (shining) the leather, but at its rapid pace, I knew that burning was likely if continued.

The belts took off a lot of dye, but not all of it.

8uI1jxz.jpg


That's about the limit of what my 4x36 is capable of.

Instead of dyeing it I decided to try burnishing first. I'll re-dye it later. The first thing I tried was a little spit and bone folder. I figure this is an easy one to back out of if it doesn't work for me. Already I see an improvement in potential. Just under the glare you can see the roughness in the fibers that I was talking about before.

2KHx8SQ.jpg


If this isn't all HO (totally possible) then it would be the back that was cut from an import double shoulder. That appears to be where the roughness is. It would have been cut from the shoulder nearest the bend, which I thought was the densest section on a double shoulder. Is that true, or did I read that wrong someplace?

Anyway, since the results look promising (it already looks as good as what took me an hour+ last night) I'm going to jump directly to Gary's method. I am concerned about that last step though because I don't have Atom Wax. I'll have to see how it looks after the last step that I am able to do. If the results aren't satisfactory I'll start trying every method beginning with Kens.

This all is really interesting to me, but I can see it being a bore to anyone else. Feel free to stop reading. It may just go on forever. :p
 
I looks like your belt is yanking fibers out of the leather. The way I finally solved this is to use a very high grit belt on a damp welt after making sure the spine is smooth from the initial grinding. A worn low grit belt still has big grit in there that grab fibers like a velcro pad.

I know it sounds crazy, but occasionally I'll flip the sheath over and sand from the other side, that tends to expose those fibers that are simply bending over. Think of the Weed Eater that only goes in one direction and how the grass folds over, imagine if you could reverse that machine how effective it would be overall.

I feel I'm getting that blank stare I got in class yesterday. :p
 
Thanks Dwayne, Forgot to mention to sand in both directions. Most everything has a grain, one way cuts the other polishes, plus it trues up the edges. Try Barge cement, the stuff rocks. I used Gum Trag once in the early days, I threw the entire bottle away after that.
No idea how paraffin wax does, I've always used beeswax from local bee keepers and not those cinder blocks they pass off as wax from Tandy. You can buy pounds of it cheap.

Spit is disgusting btw, nobody wants your cooties.
 
Nice Dwayne :) and I would caution you on burnishing before you dye, as when you burnish you are compacting the leather and sometimes once you do that, it doesn't want to accept the dye as readily as before, so I take advantage of the leather being a bit more workable just after it's dyed and then continue on with the other steps.

And glue, ugh, that is such a necessary evil LoL one other thing I'll do is when I get to this point, I'll lay down a sheet of print paper on the work surface, just in case there are any bits of unwanted 'stuff' on the surface of the work board, nothing like working on one side while the down side is getting a rough treatment from a beat up surface. But, that may just be 'my' workstation, at least it's something to consider when going down the final stretch....that and keeping your fingernails trimmed, well that just helps everyone :)

G2
 
No, that makes perfect sense actually. I think that's entirely possible. If I had to guess the original grit size of the belt, I'd put it at 220 or so. I have no idea what it might be in its worn state, but it burnishes more than anything else. I think I used this belt on my first couple of sheaths then bought new/better ones that may pull at the fibers like you say.

From working on blades I'm used to switching belts as soon as they start to get dull. It's a different mindset using an old belt.
 
So very true on dying first, I know its counter intuitive to sand away a bit of that initial dye, but the depth it penetrates is so much deeper on loose fibers. This is especially true on black dye and pro oil dye in particular, it goes gray on a burnished piece even after a few coats. It just wont go totally black.

One bad thing is cross contamination of your sanding paper and belts after working on a black sheath. I forget from time to time and end up with a nice dark welt on a saddle tan sheath. Sometimes it looks ok, other times its time to sand some more with a clean belt. Having separate storage for your paper and belts is a good thing.
 
Haha yeah I've got belts that have a green streak, black streak, red and so on. Someone told me once to avoid burning the leather because the burn goes deep. I've found that to be the case for sure.

I haven't had much trouble with black on the edges, but I don't do a lot of black, and certainly don't have the experience you have. I guess a really light application of vinegaroon for the edges would be one place where it might work well. I've tossed mine because I cannot take the smell, and don't want to use it on stuff I sell, but man, I wish there was an over the counter product that worked the same way. It just plain works.
 
Best I've found to blacken the edges well is a combination of the pro oil dye, that does penetrate well but goes light after it cures, and a standard alcohol based black on top. The alcohol based dye leaves a lot of powdery residue behind (which is why I dont use it on the body of a sheath) but it seems to be more opaque. If you want a pure black try USMC black, its got some additive that produces a shiny very opaque black. I dont like the shiny on the body of the sheath but it works like crazy on the spine.

Yep, dont burn those edges, I like the smell of good leather burning, but the dye wont go through it and leather shrinks as it burns so if you get it too hot it will curl up and shrink. When I power skive belt loops I am very careful not to burn as it actually shrinks the leather noticeably on the thinner areas.
 
Good stuff. I've wondered about that USMC stuff and about what makes it different. What about the Institutional dyes? What makes those different from the regular dyes? I've been thinking about switching everything to the Pro Oil dyes, good to know that I should hold some of the spirit stuff back.

I'll probably switch to pre dyed leather for brown & black, but I really kinda like dyeing leather so I'll be hanging on to my colors.
 
The institutional dyes were the first water based dyes I ever saw before, they were made for inmates and classes so they are all non toxic (yea, I'll bet) and easy clean up. None of them worked well, but stuck around because of the less toxic nature and shippability.

I dont know whats different with the USMC, I've asked several vendors and always got the blank stare. But it is different.

I will always do both pre dyed and dye my own leather. LIke you said, its just too much fun dying it myself, and I do a LOT of custom dye jobs as well that wont work with pre colored leather. Saddle Tan is one I want to keep getting in house pre dyed, its such a pain in the butt to get even.
 
I've done some test pieces with "spit, sandpaper, and patience" - about 600 grit. I'm getting a nice, shiny finish. All of my work will now come with free DNA samples along the edges. :)
 
A damp sponge works just as well, and is a bit less thought provoking. :p

I found some particularly heavy and dense sponges at a thrift shop a few years ago, cant seem to find that kind anymore. Those cheap ones with the big holes dont last quite as long.
 
leatherman said:
A damp sponge works just as well, and is a bit less thought provoking. :p

I found some particularly heavy and dense sponges at a thrift shop a few years ago, cant seem to find that kind anymore. Those cheap ones with the big holes dont last quite as long.
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Lol @ the first sentence. :D

I found some dense sponges for equine use. Not positive, but I think I picked them up at Tractor Supply. They sell the little round yellow ones, these are big yellow ones a bit smaller (but shaped like) a brick. They work better than your standard brick, and don't hurt as bad when you screw something up and beat your head with it either. :)

Well, I do believe that I've found the point of diminishing return. Two things to note about the pic. It doesn't look as nice in the pic as in real life because it's actually nicely done in terms of beveling and burnishing, but looks weird because I didn't bother to dye it. There are bits of black, spots of natural colored leather and mostly red. Also, I believe the finish that I was after is best done on edging that is natural colored, not dyed. I was hoping to get a finish where I could see reflections clearly, but I think that's a mostly unrealistic goal.

nvzOKf8.jpg


The good news is that I learned from this and my customers will gain from it.
 
Anthony, you finally figured it out. The really near perfect shiny edges (a la Mike Tea) are never dyed or colored in any way. The guys who get those fantastic looking edges DO NOT drift away from pure natural color. If you take one of those really great natural color finished edges and then slap a quick coat of Black or Brown dye or any color dye on it and watch that ultra smooth shiny surface go away. The edge in the photo above with color is very good to excellent considering the fact that it has color.

Paul
 
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