another "i got my gunting" story

[SIFU1A]

hi guys hope ya all had a good 4th - got my Gunting Thursday but havent really had a chance to 'play' w/it yet, but but the first impression is very favorable - came SHARP and even sharper now - does stick up high in your pocket, and the horn will catch and start the blade to opening (in jeans anyway) so i Emailed 4 cycle about a skunkworks belt sheath to carry it - will write an extended review after i have had a chance to work w/it a while - and hey i thought all guntings were serial numbered?? mine is not whats up w/that???


SIFU

 

[The General]

Only the 1st 1000?

 

[ThinkOfTheChildren]

I posted in your general forum question also but here goes again:
General is right, Spyderco only numbers the first 1000 pieces of any model.

 

[Colinz]

Yeah, I wish that they would have made it tip-up carry and with a little longer blade (like I haven´t written that before ).

This would have made it possible to "wave" open the knife like the Emerson Commander without cutting your pants to pieces. Well, it might have been a trademark or patent infringement, who knows

/Colinz

 

[crecy]

There is no message icon for "beating my head against the floor" so I put in the question mark instead.

Friend, you don't get it yet. The Gunting is "outside of the box" when it comes to tactical knives. You DO NOT open it before you start your defense. You open AS you apply your defense and counter attack. This is classic economy of motion or, in military terms, economy of force, i.e. getting there the "fustest with the mostest".

In standard drawpoint techniques you draw your folder, open it, and then respond to the attack. With the Gunting you draw it and then attack. Two motions as opposed to three and it leaves out the most complex motion, opening the knife. This is the concept that people seem to be missing about the Gunting. Is it hard to pull off? It is not hard to pull off. Can it be done in real time? It works better in real time. Are you SOL if it doesn't open? You are far from SOL if it doesn't open. I could go on but I don't want to be annoying.

You're right, it's cool to catch the ramp on the back of your pocket and snap the knife open by pulling it backwards. It is not cool to stick the point in your butt after doing that however, but more to the point it is not as fast as taking the straight line right to your assailant's attacking limb.

I encourage you to get hooked up with someone who is a certified instructor with the Gunting and learn its advantages. It, as I said, is unique, a different idea then what we have been acustomed to. Don't look at it's deployment in terms of what has been before; you will miss the point.

Nuff said. Have fun.

 

[Colinz]

crecy,

The Gunting is "outside of the box" when it comes to tactical knives. You DO NOT open it before you start your defense. /.../ This is classic economy of motion or, in military terms, economy of force, i.e. getting there the "fustest with the mostest".

I agree, it´s economy of force in selfdefense, but not in combat. Think about it logically. If you have a knife that is open when you encounter an opponent then the first contact that will be made with that knife is with the sharp part of the blade. If you use a knife that opens on impact it still takes time (even if its a microsecond) for it to start cutting. I´m absolutely no knifefighting expert but break it down to the different steps of opening and cutting with a knife and I belive you should come to the same conclusion.

Two motions as opposed to three and it leaves out the most complex motion, opening the knife.

Yes, like the commander that opens immediately you pull it out of your pocket. The difference between a combat knife and a selfdefense knife is that one is meant to cut when its drawn and the other is meant for defensive use when it´s drawn. That was why I would have liked a bigger and a bit different Gunting from the civilian model. It´s just my opinion.

It is not cool to stick the point in your butt after doing that however, but more to the point it is not as fast as taking the straight line right to your assailant's attacking limb.

Check out the movie at the Emerson site. Go to videovault and look for rapid deployment sheath. If the sheath is used properly you get the "straigth line" towards your opponent. This I believe could also be accomplished when you pull out the knife with a wave opening from your pocket.

I like the Gunting but don´t believe it to be the holy grail of tactical knives. That said I am saving up for the Gunting videoseries. It is a nice concept and there is probably some stuff there to learn about how to use a knife.

The point with my initial post was just a thought about what kind of product I would like to buy in the future.

If someone makes it, I will buy it.

/Colinz

 

[FullerH]

Colinz, the mere thought of a "tip-up" Gunting gives me the shakes, considering the close calls that I have had with my hand catching on the horn and starting the blade to open in my pocket. I get shivers up and down my spine just thinking about it! BTW, the solution to that is to get an in-pocket holster from Mike Sastre or the Skunk Works or, if that is not your cup of tea, tighten the pivot screw a bit. Mine had loosened with the breaking in of my knife until I damned near had a gravity blade, so it needed tigtening anyway.

Now, although I use mine as a utility knife (honestly, I am a Quaker), I am more than well aware of its intended uses. Bram designed the knife, really a martial arts tool, not only a knife, to be used as a glorigied kubotan, if you martial artists will forgive my loose use of the term. Closed, the Gunting is designed to be used to apply force in all kinds of ways, such as muscle and nerve pinches. That is why it has all of those odd looking bumps on it. They are for applying the pressure. The pointed ends of the hilt are so that it can be used as a yarawa stick in striking blows, either overhanded or underhanded. Finally, the horn can be a sort of brass knuckle when held projecting between yoour index and long finger. AS a matter of fact, I have actually used it to drive nails in one or two emergencies, and it worked wonerfully well. Except that it hurt like Hell when I missed and hit my finger with it! It is only at this point that the "knife" aspect of the Gunting comes into play, and that is when it gets really dangerous to play with. I sincerely and strongly recommend that anyone buying the knife for any reason also buy the tape "Spyderco Introduces The Gunting By Bram Frank". It is not so much a training tape on all of the martial arts moves, although Bram and friends do go quickly through them, but a familiarization course for this very different breed of cat, one that particularly points out the things that you should NOT try doing, such as kinetic openings on your leg. Nearly all of the accidents about which I read when the Gunting forst came out were described and warnings issued against them in this tape. Do get it. It is well worth the cost in bandages saved. But I do not know of its availability in languages other than English. Sal or Bram, how about this?

Finally, the length of the blade was specified to allow the Gunting to be legal in as many jurisdictions as possible in the United States, where many of them have a 3" limit. That was the reason for my choice of the Gunting, since I carry it in Washington, DC, where the legal limit is 3". What you need to understand is that we do not have any one law for the whole country, but a federal system, whereby localities and states set such laws.

 

[2Sharp]

Hi!

Just wanted to pop in and share my ideas
I don't own any Guntings (yet) most probably i'll be attending a Gunting seminar in Scotland later this year, can't wait!

Anyway, me too would like to see a larger version of the Gunting, yes, i'm well aware of the federal lawsystem, but there's a lot of knives that has longer blades then 3" and they sell, so, i'd like a longer blade, say 4-4.2", mmmm...

I'm pretty sure that colinz is very well aware of the use of the bumpy handle, we've even discussed this. As well as the tomahawking moves.

I've read the accounts about kinetic leg openings, ouch not good.
But opening a knife like a waved Emerson knife isn't like first pulling out the knife and then opening it on a pocketlip, it'll all happens as the knife leaves your pocket, the draw is the opening, nothing quicker out there in the folding knife department.
And no risk of cutting yourself unless you do something really strange.
I'm quite sure that a tip-up Gunting would work x-tremely well in this department.
Please note that Emerson's waved knife is tip-up and the back of the blade rests against the outer part of your pants (towards your butt) so it's very hard for it to open accidently.

I don't think that the language would be a problem, hey, we are able to make us understood here, right? (or maybe not )

Just wanted to help my fellow Swedish knifeknut out
And for the record, i have great respect for Mr. Bram frank, he's been very kind when exchanging e-mails, i'm trying to make him come here for a Gunting seminar, maybe next year, i'd love to see the concept demonstrated by it's inventor, i'm going to volunteer for a complete "guntizing" when he gets here (poor me...).
I don't think that a Gunting would replace my EDC, but i'm going to get a loie and a drone and watch all the tapes/attend seminars and train with it, i think that whole concept is very interesting and i do think that i'll have use of my various FMA training.

Just my thoughts, sorry for the rambling

 

[Colinz]

2Sharp,

Yes, I knew that you where hooked when I saw that expression on your face.

I whish that you can get Bram over here so that we can have a real Swedish knifenut meet-and-greet. I am another volunteer for becoming "guntizised" (2Sharp, did you really think that you would get to do all of the "fun stuff" all by yourself?).

BTW 2Sharp, I don´t want to be greedy so I´ll let you "model" for those effective nose opening techniques with the Gunting. -ouch!

/Colinz

 

[FullerH]

I apologize to Swedes for any mis assumptions about language. I used to love SAABs before they became yuppy specials here in the states, back when Eric "On the Roof" Carlsson used to rally the little two-stroke monsters. In any case, if you want something bigger, I am sorry, but I suspect that you'll need to look elsewhere. Can you get REKATs in Sweden? Go over to 1SKS and look at them. Among other things, they can be "Flipped" open by holding back the rolling lock switch and flipping your wrist as you are bringing it up. Here in the States, that will get you arrested if a cop sees you, but I don't know what Swedish law says. In any case, look at the Sifu. That is the bvest large folder made, just ask Jim March!

Good luck on getting Bram over there.