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Anvil horders really p!$$ me off!

That's a good point on the vises. I've got two post vise, one 6" and one 4". A while back the shaft broke on the 6" and I gave up on finding a replacement and just ordered acme threaded rod and nuts to fix it. I have been looking at the large one Centaur forge carries, but it's 900$. Every time I ask about the new ones being made on some of the blacksmith sites I get poo-pooed and told to just go buy a used one for 50-100$. I'd like to know where there finding them, I can promise they are not around here for anywhere near that price.
 
I have a post vise my brother gave me. The leg is broken though. I haven't had the time or energy to weld it.
 
Will52100 said:
That's a good point on the vises. I've got two post vise, one 6" and one 4". A while back the shaft broke on the 6" and I gave up on finding a replacement and just ordered acme threaded rod and nuts to fix it. I have been looking at the large one Centaur forge carries, but it's 900$. Every time I ask about the new ones being made on some of the blacksmith sites I get poo-pooed and told to just go buy a used one for 50-100$. I'd like to know where there finding them, I can promise they are not around here for anywhere near that price.
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yea, I understand completely. guys, especially on sites like iforgeiron just say "find it cheaper"...heck how long are you suppose to look? One,two or three years? Sooner or later a person gets tired of looking. I don't blame anyone at all for buying a new anvil or a new vise..get it,use it for a lifetime and be done with it.."Making due" with a piece of equipment that wont do the job gets real dang old, real fast..
 
Exactly, and if you count time and money spent looking, or driving half way across the country to pick it up, it gets expensive quick.
 
I agree with a lot of smiths that suggest buying a new anvil. You can get a good anvil for @ $5/lb. Don't dis the cast steel and ductile anvils - they are much better than they were just a few decades ago. And nothing wrong with a farriers anvil for bladesmithing. I don't know what to say bout the other tools though. I'll sometimes see a 4" vise for $150 but the bigger ones are usually twice that.
 
Went to an auction in January. They had six anvils and a bunch of other smithing stuff. Out of the six only two of them where in, what I consider, working condition. Took a pocket full of cash and found out my pockets weren't deep enough. I watched an old couple buy up a decent 200 pounder for $1000. Pretty sure it's sitting in someones front yard right now.
 
The Internet has pretty much killed the second hand and collectibles market for buyers who don't have an 'in' or do it full time.

There is a town near where I live that is famous for its antique shops. As recently as ten years ago you could still go in and find decent stuff there. Now they are full of junk. They have agreements with people who specialize in certain items - vintage pocket knives for example - to offer them first opportunity when the good stuff comes in. A lot of which is then re-sold online at a premium mark up.
 
Could I ask for some name brand of quality new anvils? I am looking for a 100 lb and also a 150 lb...
 
Don't really have a price range. Willing to pay for quality... Something like that would be a long term investment.
 
I am not familiar with new anvils. My father's old one is not available. And old ones are difficult to find locally. So I am looking at new ones. But did not know where to start.
 
Peddinghaus is one of the harder anvils and it is drop forged and induction hardened. There are a lot of cast steel anvils, I am familiar with 2 - the Nimba and the Rhino. Both are good anvils with the Nimba having a unique shape to what I was used to. The Rhino has an edge on hardness with a classical (at least in the last couple of centuries) design. Most of the lower cost farriers anvils are ductile iron.
 
Depends on what you want to do with it. If your serious about a top of the line anvil, I don't think there's one better than the Refflinghaus, but they ain't cheap. I finally broke down and bought one after looking at all the different anvils out there for years. What convinced me was a friend got one and I tried it out. One thing I like about Refflinghaus anvils is that they are guaranteed to be at least 59 RC to 1" deep, I checked with a hardness file set and the softest spot is in the center and it checks out at 59-60, everywhere else is 60-61. First time I missed with a 3 pound hammer I almost ate it, it went over my shoulder. And there was no damage to the anvil, it's harder than all my tooling, including hammers I've made and bought. I was concerned about it maybe being brittle, but after talking with people who had one found out this is not the case. Not to mention an anvil is designed for you to hit soft hot metal, not hit the anvil with a hammer, and after paying what I did you better believe I'm careful with it and don't let just anybody use it.

This is where I got mine, Dick is good to do business with. http://www.blksmth.com/Refflinghaus_Anvils.htm I got the 330 pounder and love it, but there are times I wish I'd gotten the 220 pounder just to have a smaller horn. I like mine so much I've got a hornless 275 pounder ordered, it being an uncommon order from the factory, I'm having to wait 6 months so far. http://kowalperun.com/professional-...ns/17-hornless-anvils-ernst-refflinghaus.html This one will be strictly for blade work, and it's a want to have, not a must have, but I've been wanting one like this for 15 years so I figured why not.

For knife making, you really don't need a full fledged anvil, and I got by for a long time with makeshift anvils and a pair of harbor freight russian cast steel anvils. I didn't really get energetic, IE willing to spend the money on a good or new anvil, until I started doing some decorative blacksmithing. If your going to do shaping and forming, you need a decent anvil, if your going to forge billets and blades a flat chunk of steel will get you by.
 
I had the same luck. Ended up just using a giant piece of mild steel. With prices these days of anvils out my way at least, a brand new Nimba, Fontanini, Refllinghaus is actually more tangible. Some time early last year I stumbled upon a pretty nice condition anvil in the 70 pound range, at a steel supply yard. They wanted $900 for it! because it was "collectors item". I decided to just save up for a really nice anvil once I start forging consistently. Too many sexy anvils out there brand new for the same price as these "antiques."
 
I think it's important to remember, that the low prices once associated with anvils, were a by-product of the extreme swing in their ubiquity vs commonality of use. When anvils were $1 a lb regularly, it was due to the decline of numerous types of tradition, not the least of which were the smithing professions. Never otherwise in history did they have such low relative value.

Even a couple of hundred years ago, the adjusted cost of anvils was huge comparatively, I haven't looked at the numbers, but I'm guessing it was probably significantly higher than what new anvils cost now. They were a lifetime investment, and the core tool of many specific trades, and necessary for all types of work outside those trades.


I'm not a fan of the hoarders either, although there are some legit collectors. I also tend to prefer a tool be used than collected, but if we push that philosophy too much, most of us that make higher end knives, would probably be out of business, hard to justify numerous mutli-hundred/thousand dollar knives for "general use", but as collectible art, it's a different story.


If you consider the value of an anvil, the new prices are more than fair, we're just used to the convenience, as a society (entitled even) to casually pickup a trade, as a "hobby" or whatever, with minimal investment, to try it on. Thus the idea of a couple thousand dollars investment seems outrageous. If you consider it from the standpoint of a tradesman a hundred years ago, the adjusted percentage of income, relative to the potential, they'd probably be thrilled to pay what we're paying.


FWIW, I've had a very nice large(375lb) Fisher Saw anvil, with beyond excellent rebound and an unmolested faceplate on CL and FB for less than $3 a lb for weeks, with absolutely no interest. So is the question whether there are fair prices out there, or are we feeling entitled to incredibly unfair (in our favor) prices because of the extreme trend of a certain period not so long ago?

I paid $4 a lb for my main anvil (mint 250lb fisher, london pattern), and was thrilled to get it for that, even though I'd bought numerous others for less. I knew it was as good as any new anvil I'd buy, and it was the size and style and brand I wanted.

Just my 2c, take it for what you will.
 
Thanks for the help... And javand, pm a link to your fisher? It is larger than I need, but I would like to see it...
 
javand said:
I think it's important to remember, that the low prices once associated with anvils, were a by-product of the extreme swing in their ubiquity vs commonality of use. When anvils were $1 a lb regularly, it was due to the decline of numerous types of tradition, not the least of which were the smithing professions. Never otherwise in history did they have such low relative value.

Even a couple of hundred years ago, the adjusted cost of anvils was huge comparatively, I haven't looked at the numbers, but I'm guessing it was probably significantly higher than what new anvils cost now. They were a lifetime investment, and the core tool of many specific trades, and necessary for all types of work outside those trades.


I'm not a fan of the hoarders either, although there are some legit collectors. I also tend to prefer a tool be used than collected, but if we push that philosophy too much, most of us that make higher end knives, would probably be out of business, hard to justify numerous mutli-hundred/thousand dollar knives for "general use", but as collectible art, it's a different story.


If you consider the value of an anvil, the new prices are more than fair, we're just used to the convenience, as a society (entitled even) to casually pickup a trade, as a "hobby" or whatever, with minimal investment, to try it on. Thus the idea of a couple thousand dollars investment seems outrageous. If you consider it from the standpoint of a tradesman a hundred years ago, the adjusted percentage of income, relative to the potential, they'd probably be thrilled to pay what we're paying.


FWIW, I've had a very nice large(375lb) Fisher Saw anvil, with beyond excellent rebound and an unmolested faceplate on CL and FB for less than $3 a lb for weeks, with absolutely no interest. So is the question whether there are fair prices out there, or are we feeling entitled to incredibly unfair (in our favor) prices because of the extreme trend of a certain period not so long ago?

I paid $4 a lb for my main anvil (mint 250lb fisher, london pattern), and was thrilled to get it for that, even though I'd bought numerous others for less. I knew it was as good as any new anvil I'd buy, and it was the size and style and brand I wanted.

Just my 2c, take it for what you will.
Click to expand...
I think the entire point has been missed of my original rant... Ok, I expect prices to ebb and flow. What I don't like is HAVING to pay $6/lb because that is the only real option. They used to be in diverse enough hands that a little bit of effort on the buyers part paid off with dividends when it came to buying one. One of my finds, 'hey, I have this big anvil and don't want to deal with moving it... If you come get it, I'll sell it for_____$' Yes, there are the occasional posts on CL that are good if you can travel. But again, the dividend is at least partially spent on the behalf of the poster if they retrieved it and sniffed it up... My local flea market finds, in other words, are gone...

And the ubiquitous anvil situation due to there being multiple farriers, blacksmiths, etc in every community should mean there is still a surplus. They don't really get all used up. They aren't all boat anchors. And they aren't all scrap. I just can't believe blacksmithing has made that big of a revival. I HOPE it has, but doubt it... Especially with the 'push enter and make a knife' CAD/CAM CNC flood lately. Which is another matter altogether, and I hope that fad wanes...

I see all sides of it. I do. Heck, I wish I had enough forethought to have bought into it a little. I just feel like fewer hands are controlling the market nowadays. Same with a lot of stuff I guess... Only so many 'barn find 68 Cameron and old pre-war caddies' out there... Etc.

And your Fisher might be more anvil than a lot are looking for. I wouldn't read too much into it. If I didn't have money tied up in other ventures at the moment I'd be tempted myself.

Cheers!
Eric
 
Black smithing hasnt made that big of a comeback, nor have they become boat anchors. What they have become is (for some reason) lawn ornaments. People buy them to have as antique lawn ornaments. I havent figured out this fad yet and I doubt I will.
 
tattooedfreak said:
Black smithing hasnt made that big of a comeback, nor have they become boat anchors. What they have become is (for some reason) lawn ornaments. People buy them to have as antique lawn ornaments. I havent figured out this fad yet and I doubt I will.
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One guy in our neigbourhoord has an old rusty plow for decoraration in front of his house. The HOA approved but they don't let us keep chicken, not even hens.
Fake in your face rural is good but something real even in the backyard isn't.
 
tattooedfreak said:
Black smithing hasnt made that big of a comeback, nor have they become boat anchors. What they have become is (for some reason) lawn ornaments. People buy them to have as antique lawn ornaments. I havent figured out this fad yet and I doubt I will.
Click to expand...
That is so strange... I don't see that around here. What, like there will be someone forging iron in their front yard, absent any other equipment?
The plows and Amish buggies, yeah... In spades...

Around here it is OGTMM's (Old Guys with Too Much Money) that put an anvil, forge, power hammers and presses, heck even old gang drive machines in their 'shop.' The shop that is never actually used by anyone... Just a place to show off to people who visit. All the 'wrought iron' furniture and accoutrement around their place is bought at the local craft fair or via Internet...

I build cars too, slowly... But have built some fairly nice oldies, and hang around those circles... These are the same as the guys who have a whole 1950's style gas station set up behind their house just to park their shoebox Chevy in the bay... Same idea, problem is I could still use the anvils and other tools. I have no use for an old gas pump... The 1970's model we bought to pump farm diesel works just fine! Hah....

They could do just fine with a cast iron 'prop' anvil... Same thing with your front yard idiots. Nobody can tell the brand of the anvil from the street. (none of you ABANA/ABS guys chime in here... Yes yes, I know you guys probably can... Lol)
It's probably getting slathered all over in black paint anyway...

Cheers.
Eric
 
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