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Any info on 125cr1 steel?
- Thread starter TheEdge01
- Start date
Will do! Thanks!It is a 26C3/spicy white equivalent. Look in Larrin’s book or Alpha probably has info on it.
Hoss
Exactly what devin has said. I asked about it a couple weeks ago, I will buy some and compare it to 26c3 for san mai in a not too distant future, I can let you know then how it is from my perspective if you want.NJSB has 125cr1 steel in stock. This is the first time I recall hearing about it. Has anyone on here used this steel? If so, how did you heat treat it?
The good thing IMHO is the size choices and also the the price which is decent.
I worked a bit with comparable European steels (bs1407 silver steel, xc130, 26c3, 135cr3) and to be honest they are all very similar if not pretty much the same thing (135cr3 with more chromium has some subtle difference but nothing major), I expect this one to fall in line with most of these.
austenitizing at 1450-1475f 7-10min in fast oil and temper between 300 and 450f depending on desired use should work well for stock removal.
If forged, after forging a 1700f normalization, a short 1450f soak and a DET anneal at 1400f 30min and then vermiculite prior to austenitizing should work well, too.
Yes, that would be great! I use 26c3 pretty often, but like experimenting with steels from time to time, so a comparison would be nice. Thank you!Exactly what devin has said. I asked about it a couple weeks ago, I will buy some and compare it to 26c3 for san mai in a not too distant future I can let you know then how it is from my perspective, if you want. the good thing IMHO is the size choices and the price is decent. I worked a bit with comparable European steels (bs1407 silver steel, xc130, 26c3, 135cr3) and to be honest they are all very similar if not pretty much the same thing (135cr3 with more chromium has some subtle difference but nothing major), I expect this one to fall in line with most of these.
All right, will do !Yes, that would be great! I use 26c3 pretty often, but like experimenting with steels from time to time, so a comparison would be nice. Thank you!
All right, so here are some updates. I have been using 125cr1 for a month now, mostly as a core steel for san mai and warikomi mild steel clad kitchen knives, water quenched à la japanese, alongside with old files and what I had left of 26c3.
I bought a 4ft long bar, 1-1/4" x 3/8" of 125cr1, I REALLY love the thickness for having a stubby short billet for the same amount of material instead of a thinner more elongated one, makes it easier to set welds as there is less surface to weld and the billet keeps the heat longer. This alone was an improvement over whatever else I had in stock, and preferable to what I had to do previously with thinner stuff like sheffcut for example, which was stacking 3 layers of 3mm thick to have a sizeable core.
Once I got into forging, first thing I did was forge welding it to mild steel (1008 cold rolled). I try to stay below 2100f for forge welding and in a neutral atmosphere and this steel reacts very well to it. I never had a spark and very little delamination, whereas some comparable steels you have to be very uptight with temp and atmosphere control to guarantee results, this one is stupid easy to weld, same as 26c3. the delam I had was due to bad timing setting the weld on one extremity of the billet, afterwards never had the issue when I worked quick enough.
It definitely likes a higher heat normalizing like 26c3.
this steel is pretty shallow hardening, after a DET anneal it is quite soft, same as 26c3 again. old files do sometimes get a little softer which is a plus for me, but this one still is very good and maybe with a little tweaking in heat cycling I could improve on this.
when I water quench (only in soft steel laminated blades with clay wash) I use lower temps for austenitizing, normally around 1430f for 6-7min AT TEMP (so more like 9-10min in the oven), then quenched into lukewarm water for 3 seconds. the blade is cool to the touch after that very short time. It then goes STRAIGHT AWAY into a preheated toaster oven with thermometer around 370f, 3x45min, water cooling between each time. this whole process gets me around 64hrc, I really need to go over 350f to go below 65hrc. One thing I realized is that these steels don't need a high temperature for austenitizing process if your quenchant is quick enough and the steel is in an appropriate condition to handle it. Even in parks 50 I don't go often over 1470f and the hardness is plentiful and the toughness is surprising for such a high carbon steel. After all this when it came time to grind, polish and sharpen the blade it reacted just like 26c3.
I looked for the broad spec sheet for that steel and I have worked with equivalent steels from europe (xc130 from france and BS1407 silver steel) so I kinda knew what to expect.
It was advertised as something equivalent to 26c3, and I wanted to experience first in hand if it was the case, which it definitely was.
But then I was curious to know more about this specific steel so I got the spec sheet from Buderus that NJSB provides with the steel, and went to compare with 26c3 certs from what I had from AKS.
I have to admit I suspected it was pretty similar but I was a bit stunned to see how similar they actually are.
Here is the composition from Buderus (for 3/8" thick, I don't have other size certs)
C : 1.23%
Cr : 0.24%
Mn : 0.40%
Si : 0.21%
P : 0.004%
S : 0.001%
Here is the AKS I had
C : 1.24%
Cr : 0.25%
Mn : 0.39%
Si : 0.24%
P : 0.003%
S : 0.001%
Composition wise IT IS the same steel. there are often more variances between one provider of 1095 to the other than between this and 26c3. Even the cleanliness is pretty much the same. The manufacturing might be different, maybe Uddeholm uses ESR and Buderus doesn't, but in any case in real world use I saw absolutely no difference between both steels, and the spec sheets prove it.
BTW here is a test blade I did with 125cr1 and mild steel cladding, still in the works.
Bottom line, if you like 26c3 you will like 125cr1, choose whichever is the most easy to get for you.
Hope it helps.
I bought a 4ft long bar, 1-1/4" x 3/8" of 125cr1, I REALLY love the thickness for having a stubby short billet for the same amount of material instead of a thinner more elongated one, makes it easier to set welds as there is less surface to weld and the billet keeps the heat longer. This alone was an improvement over whatever else I had in stock, and preferable to what I had to do previously with thinner stuff like sheffcut for example, which was stacking 3 layers of 3mm thick to have a sizeable core.
Once I got into forging, first thing I did was forge welding it to mild steel (1008 cold rolled). I try to stay below 2100f for forge welding and in a neutral atmosphere and this steel reacts very well to it. I never had a spark and very little delamination, whereas some comparable steels you have to be very uptight with temp and atmosphere control to guarantee results, this one is stupid easy to weld, same as 26c3. the delam I had was due to bad timing setting the weld on one extremity of the billet, afterwards never had the issue when I worked quick enough.
It definitely likes a higher heat normalizing like 26c3.
this steel is pretty shallow hardening, after a DET anneal it is quite soft, same as 26c3 again. old files do sometimes get a little softer which is a plus for me, but this one still is very good and maybe with a little tweaking in heat cycling I could improve on this.
when I water quench (only in soft steel laminated blades with clay wash) I use lower temps for austenitizing, normally around 1430f for 6-7min AT TEMP (so more like 9-10min in the oven), then quenched into lukewarm water for 3 seconds. the blade is cool to the touch after that very short time. It then goes STRAIGHT AWAY into a preheated toaster oven with thermometer around 370f, 3x45min, water cooling between each time. this whole process gets me around 64hrc, I really need to go over 350f to go below 65hrc. One thing I realized is that these steels don't need a high temperature for austenitizing process if your quenchant is quick enough and the steel is in an appropriate condition to handle it. Even in parks 50 I don't go often over 1470f and the hardness is plentiful and the toughness is surprising for such a high carbon steel. After all this when it came time to grind, polish and sharpen the blade it reacted just like 26c3.
I looked for the broad spec sheet for that steel and I have worked with equivalent steels from europe (xc130 from france and BS1407 silver steel) so I kinda knew what to expect.
It was advertised as something equivalent to 26c3, and I wanted to experience first in hand if it was the case, which it definitely was.
But then I was curious to know more about this specific steel so I got the spec sheet from Buderus that NJSB provides with the steel, and went to compare with 26c3 certs from what I had from AKS.
I have to admit I suspected it was pretty similar but I was a bit stunned to see how similar they actually are.
Here is the composition from Buderus (for 3/8" thick, I don't have other size certs)
C : 1.23%
Cr : 0.24%
Mn : 0.40%
Si : 0.21%
P : 0.004%
S : 0.001%
Here is the AKS I had
C : 1.24%
Cr : 0.25%
Mn : 0.39%
Si : 0.24%
P : 0.003%
S : 0.001%
Composition wise IT IS the same steel. there are often more variances between one provider of 1095 to the other than between this and 26c3. Even the cleanliness is pretty much the same. The manufacturing might be different, maybe Uddeholm uses ESR and Buderus doesn't, but in any case in real world use I saw absolutely no difference between both steels, and the spec sheets prove it.
BTW here is a test blade I did with 125cr1 and mild steel cladding, still in the works.
Bottom line, if you like 26c3 you will like 125cr1, choose whichever is the most easy to get for you.
Hope it helps.