Any love for the ZDP-189 offerings?

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Jan 14, 2016
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Should have a new Dragonfly 2 in ZDP-189 in hand tomorrow, Next is the ZDP Endura, and then the ZDP Delica. Don't know when I'll be able to lay hands on those though. What I would really love to see is a Sage or Native or Manix 2 in ZDP, That'd be an instant buy!

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It is great stuff. I think to some it is old news and to others it doesn't have the "essential" vanadium carbides.

It is a quality steel that is run at high hardness. It has very high carbon and very high chromium. It is very wear resistant and that comes from chromium carbides and high hardness instead of the currently more common vanadium carbides.

We are spoiled with steels and many are similar and many have attributes and qualities that overlap quite a bit. What I like about ZDP is that in this age of options that ZDP still stands out as a unique offering. There isn't much else like it.
 
Agreed, there isn't much else like it. I love the performance of my M390 and CPM-M4 blades, I wish I had the corrosion resistance of the M390 with the durability and edge retention of the CPM-M4. That's why I really like ZDP-189 blades. My Sukenari Gyuto totally won me over.
 
I've got Delica that I really enjoy. The ZDP has held a great edge so far and it's one of my favorite knives. I wouldn't hesitate to buy other Spydercos in ZDP either.
 
First post here. I bought several Spydercos over the past year, including the Delicas and & Enduras in ZDP. I carry the Delica clip-less. The Endura has an MX-Gear clip. Been a great carry combination for me. I've also got the same knives in VG-10. Learning and comparing the steel attributes from usage and sharpening has been educational, to say the least. Fwiw, I'd get that ZDP Endura again in a minute.
 
Any love for the ZDP-189 offerings?

Oh most definitely !
I love these things. I traded an S110V Manix for the ZDP-189 Endura 4 if that tells you how I feel ;) :thumbsup:

Got to be a little cool or you will chip them but that's why I carry the little nippers at work . . . for wire ties. Cutting about everything else the knives are good to go.
PS : knives in my pockets; nippers in the pouch.
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Here is my experience with ZDP.

The steel itself is very hard, but lacks the vanadium carbides. That means that it actually responds quite well to sharpening mediums that wouldn’t work well on high VC steels. I have found that once you get a good edge on it, you can just touch that edge up basically forever with a few passes on my sharpmaker fine or ultrafines.

Even Rockstead, which is an industry leader with ZDP, recommends just stropping their knives back to sharpness. (Those rocksteads come with an amazing edge out of the box)

Also I find it a very interesting steel technology wise. Unlike most other supersteels which use high vanadium carbides to achieve wear resistance, ZDP has gone the route of making the steel matrix itself very hard. We often hear people erroniously describe steels such as s110v as very hard. (They are quite hard but the VCs is part of that) In ZDP the steel itself is actually very hard. (Or can be HT’ed to be) I also find that ZDP because of this can take a VERY stable fine razor edge and hang onto it, provided it is not too thin.

High VC carbide steels seem to lose that razor edge and quickly degrade to a toothy working edge. (That is from the VCs)

Edit: In short it is amazing and unique stuff. If someone likes the properties of steels like Shirogami (Hitachi White) which also takes a fine stable edge due to its lack of carbides, then ZDP is going to be a holy grail for them.
 
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In ZDP the steel itself is actually very hard. (Or can be HT’ed to be) I also find that ZDP because of this can take a VERY stable fine razor edge and hang onto it, provided it is not too thin.

High VC carbide steels seem to lose that razor edge and quickly degrade to a toothy working edge. (That is from the VCs)

I often say FOR ME, when it comes to heat treat, the harder the better.
I understand there is a rational limit and that beyond that we get into micro fracturing but I sure enjoy exploring these limits.
 
I often say FOR ME, when it comes to heat treat, the harder the better.
I understand there is a rational limit and that beyond that we get into micro fracturing but I sure enjoy exploring this limits.

I was talking about how you watch youtube videos and the guy will pull out a knife in say s35vn and say “this is quite a hard steel.” Then you find out the knife was only HT’ed to 60 rc. The vanadium carbides in the steel are (if I remember correctly) somewhere in the mid to high 80rc. Those are what is actually hard.

ZDP truly can be HT’ed to be “a very hard steel.” Also the Rockwell C scale isn’t linear. So the difference between 60rc and 61rc is much greater than between 59rc and 60rc, and so on. As you go up in numbers the difference between each subsequent number gets greater and greater. ZDP at 67rc is a rediculously hard steel. (Vanadium carbides at 80whatever rc is just insane)
 
Lots of love from me for ZDP. The vanadium carbide thing has already been discussed, so I won't beat a dead horse. There are times when I would rather that forever toothy edge holding of somehting like S110V, but for an EDC ZDP is hard to beat.

I see ZDP more as a time-proven formula, rather than old news. It's a top contender in my book, I love the stuff.
 
ZDP-189? Fantastic steel, I Love it!

I have in ZDP-189: Endura 4 Saber Ground, Delica 4 Saber (now Scandi) Ground, Delica 4 FFG, and my much beloved Stretch. (I had a FFG ZDP Endura 4, but gifted it to a friend I've known for a long time who keeps an eye on my house when I'm off hiking long trails)

Properly sharpened/deburred - it stays so sharp, for a nice long time :)

u.w.
 
My experience with ZDP is both with Rockstead and Spyderco knives. The Rockstead's (Kei & Shu) have a saber grind blade geometry that makes the edge very strong and less likely to chip. Being a true saber grind there's no beveled edge. The Rockstead blades are hardened to an insane Hrc 66.5.

I have both a Spyderco Caly 3.5 and a Manbug in ZDP. They are flat ground blades but have a beveled edge. I don't know what Hrc they are but they are both terrific cutters. I suspect I won't be sharpening them anytime soon. I just had the Caly 3.5 factory sharpened in Boulder, CO as it came new from Japan with a poor edge geometry. It's back from Boulder now and back into the EDC rotation. It still takes second fiddle to the Rockstead Shu. One thing to be aware of is that ZDP needs a good wipe-down every once in a while to ensure that it doesn't start to rust. I live in Hawaii, so with sweat and humidity, you have to keep an eye on blade maintenance.

I have a couple PM-2's with CPM S110V that are just as good as ZDP in my unscientific opinion. So, you don't have to climb aboard the ZDP bandwagon if you don't want too. All the CPM steels are absolutely outstanding to include the tried and true S30V.
 
I haven’t had any chipping or corrosion problems with the ZDP. I like to sharpen it on the Shapton glass stones (15 degrees per side). My S-30, S-60, S-90, S110, and S-125 blades get sharpened on the Venev bonded diamond stones.
 
Unlike most other supersteels which use high vanadium carbides to achieve wear resistance, ZDP has gone the route of making the steel matrix itself very hard. We often hear people erroniously describe steels such as s110v as very hard. (They are quite hard but the VCs is part of that) In ZDP the steel itself is actually very hard. (Or can be HT’ed to be) I also find that ZDP because of this can take a VERY stable fine razor edge and hang onto it, provided it is not too thin.

I'm confused (please set me straight) -- it seems like the size of the crystal formed (along with its composition, of course) would have more to do with the alloy's hardness than the specific hardness of any one interstitial, yeah? We're talking micro- scale for individual crystals (or grains, if you prefer) in the metal matrix - any one carbide is necessarily smaller than the crystal it habitates; how can we quantify any discrepancy between (or effect on) the hardness of the matrix and the carbide at the scale relevant to the blade's edge?

Also, there is lots of talk about 'large' vs. 'small' carbide formation (Cr vs. V, if I recall, is the frequent comparison) - is the carbide itself changing size (again, on a scale relevant to the knife blade), or is it a matter of carbide dispersal (or both)?

Thanks for the help!

*ref.: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...478526531681&usg=AOvVaw2BcdZwXXixJyqfdNguAuGO
 
Only have experience with my Stretch 1 in British Racing Green FRN. Came razor sharp and made me pick up the standard VG10 version as well as the HAP40. Don't have a Delica anymore but i'm eyeing one in ZDP.
 
I'm confused (please set me straight) -- it seems like the size of the crystal formed (along with its composition, of course) would have more to do with the alloy's hardness than the specific hardness of any one interstitial, yeah? We're talking micro- scale for individual crystals (or grains, if you prefer) in the metal matrix - any one carbide is necessarily smaller than the crystal it habitates; how can we quantify any discrepancy between (or effect on) the hardness of the matrix and the carbide at the scale relevant to the blade's edge?

Also, there is lots of talk about 'large' vs. 'small' carbide formation (Cr vs. V, if I recall, is the frequent comparison) - is the carbide itself changing size (again, on a scale relevant to the knife blade), or is it a matter of carbide dispersal (or both)?

Thanks for the help!

*ref.: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwiz04D4pqnYAhUHzmMKHczCAJQQFggwMAE&url=https://www.researchgate.net/file.PostFileLoader.html?id=58208643f7b67e28620e7b7d&assetKey=AS%3A425785287811076%401478526531681&usg=AOvVaw2BcdZwXXixJyqfdNguAuGO

This is a simplified explanation of how carbides of various size and distribution affect steel toughness.


If we look at an edge of a high VC steel it is like a mud hill with boulders embedded in it. (The VCs are the boulders, the steel matrix is the mud) As the mud wears away the boulders are left. This is the toothy working edge I was talking about. Also as the boulders eventually wear away too and rip out chunks of mud as they go.

Now a steel like ZDP with a more uniform hardness across the edge won’t wear in that pattern. (Zdp is a powdered steel so its chromium carbides are smaller). The steel matrix of the zdp can be as hard as 67rc. Chromium carbides are 69-70rc. Also powdered steels have less of the effect of the “boulders” being torn out because the PM process tries to turn those boulders into pebbles.
 
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