kreole
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Just to clarify, you're asking if to cut on a cutting board is to abuse a knife?
Any response to this? S35VN Related...
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Just to clarify, you're asking if to cut on a cutting board is to abuse a knife?
This weekend I alternated between my Para2 in s30v and my large Insingo with s35vn. Not a controlled test but I used them both to cut limbs off a Christmas tree. About the same amount of cutting. The result was the spyderco would no longer shave hair and the Insingo would. Conclusive... No but for what I use a knife for I have seen no issues.
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I've read 6 pages of nobody understanding what Ankerson and CTS are saying...
Steel is like steak, there are different ways to cook it. CRK cooks their steak a bit rare. It has nothing to do with the cook or the steak, it has everything to do with the grill. (We're cooking with gas now)
Steel is like steak, there are different ways to cook it. CRK cooks their steak a bit rare. It has nothing to do with the cook or the steak, it has everything to do with the grill. (We're cooking with gas now)
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I feel the softer heat treatment kind of wastes the potential of the steel. Vanadium carbides are supposed to be more wear resistant, thus attempting to soften the steel in order to make it easy to sharpen seems besides the point when using something without vanadium carbides like CPM-154 would achieve the same effect without going through the trouble of specifically designing a brand new steel. I also think it's safe to say that wear resistance alone does not make for good edge holding.
Also, this is just my unprofessional opinion, but with a thin edge resulting from the hollow grind, I would think more hardness would be more important in order to make sure the edge doesn't roll easily with so little metal behind the edge. As well, I thought being thin behind the edge would make touching up and sharpening easy enough already.
kreole
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(I apologize if you already know anything below; I wanted to spell it all out, so everyone's on the same page
.)Unless I'm mistaken from the close-up pictures in the rope cutting video at around 10:15, it bent over in the middle of the sharpened part of the edge, not above the edge bevel. In that case there is no influence in thickness from the grind (or blade stock thickness for that matter). A 30*, say, edge on a knife with a saber grind and 5mm stock and a 30* edge on a thin hollow ground 2mm stock blade are going to be the same thickness along the edge bevel at the same distance from the peak of the edge. To be clear, in that example, supposing the edge on each goes up on both at least 1mm, then at .5mm from the very edge (or anything less than or equal to 1mm), both blades will have the same thickness.
Another way to put it is the thickness from one side of the edge bevel to the other is solely influenced by the edge angle, not blade stock or grind. It's only the part above the edge bevel whose thickness will be influenced by blade grind, and when comparing two knives, it will be at distances above the lowest of the two edge bevels where their thickness differs. (That is part of why Ankerson and others talk about the thickness behind the edge and not lower.)
There are three possible cases when comparing any other knife to the Seb. First, they might both have equal-height edge bevels. Then, at the distance from the edge that CTS's edge bent, they are the same thickness. Given the above argument, the grind is not influential on the results in this case.
The second case is if the Seb's edge angle ends below the other's. That is what happens if the Seb's grind is thinner on the lower part of the blade, which is what you say is influencing the results. Here's a stupid mspaint picture to show this; I drew two hollow grinds--though type doesn't matter, only that one is thicker than the other--and an edge on them. You can see that the edge bevel on the thicker one goes higher up:
Note, however, that if that's the case, the bend occurred below the lowest of both edge bevels, so again they have the same thickness at the height of the bend on CTS's knife.
The third case if the the Seb's edge angle ends higher, but then, as we can see in the pic above, that means the Seb is actually thicker than the knife being compared to, which isn't part of your premise.
So, I don't think the grind of the Seb can be influencing CTS's results.
However, your point about the edge being too thin does carry weight. Obviously the thicker the angle, the thicker the steel at any distance away from the edge. It would be interesting to see how thick the edge angle needs to be to prevent rolling as bad as in the video.
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marthinus
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I would love to see a CRK pocket knife with CPM-154. IMO the amount of Vanadium in a steel should be 0.2 percent, but I might be in the minority if I see the demand for high vanadium steels.
Tsujigiri
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Keep your eye out for vintage Sebbies, then.
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Gotcha. I did remember reading that cobalt increases strength without increasing hardness. And true enough, I've observed less rolling on VG-10 than I would expect of a steel at that hardness range(Rc 58-60). Actually I didn't observe rolling at all when I was cutting up my papaya tree with it(against the grain).
I've carried my small Sebbie for 4 months now, without any edge issues! I'm perfectly happy with it
If I ever feel the urge to sever copper powercord, I'll just pull out my Leatherman Wirecutter to fix the job........
just my 2 cents...
Statements like this indicate the poster doesn't really understand what's going on in this thread. I'm not singling anyone out. This is just the most recent post like this.
Maybe he does understand the thread, and is getting in how two cents like everybody else, including yourself. The poster indicates that the knife does what he asks of it and is happy with the results. This is just proof that everyones expectation is different with everything in life. The poster also indicated that if he felt the need to cut copper he would use a different tool, so how is that not understand what the thread is about. If people are happy with the performance of their knives and don't see the need for more extensive testing to trip their trigger, they do have the right. It is EXACTLY what the thread is about. And by the way, you did single him out if you wanted to or not.
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Interesting..I take his comment to mean that his sebenza works as he expected. Nothing more, or less. It's all in the interpretation I guess. Perhaps a simple comment that he has not yet achieved the edge deformity displayed in the video that was posted.
LOL- FYI...You just did.
CTS- Thanks for the vid- I think the results should be interesting with the upcoming tests.
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I don't think there's anything wrong with using a wire cutter to cut wire, I would expect it to do nothing else. It's like using a prybar to pry with:thumbup:. However, I hope nobody has anything against using a folding knife to cut rope, as I can hardly imagine a more fitting tool for the job.
I also don't think there's anything wrong with a $200 knife outcutting a $400 knife, as my Spyderco Para2 in S90V will do just that. I just don't want the $400 to give the impression of an inferior blade when compared to a $50 knife(say, a Buck Vantage Pro).
I also don't think there's anything wrong with a $200 knife outcutting a $400 knife, as my Spyderco Para2 in S90V will do just that. I just don't want the $400 to give the impression of an inferior blade when compared to a $50 knife(say, a Buck Vantage Pro).
Ankerson
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There is much more to a price of a knife than just pure peformance alone, it really is the whole package.
But yeah when one pays out some good cash for a knife I would expect it to have some reasonable performance if it's a user.
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Reasonable performance is something you reasonably expect from most any knife, but some knives are made with aesthetics as the primary goal, where as others are made with performance in mind. I would like to think that CRK is a mixture of both, being somewhere in the middle...
Ankerson
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Just because a knife cost $400 doesn't mean it's going do everything at the top of the scale.
One really needs to go the custom route for that and pay for the whole package.
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True enough, though I would never shell out the money for an Emerson custom.
I am a bit curious as to how CRK S30V blades are heat treated, but I'm hoping multiple tempers and cryo treatment is there as a bare minimum.
Though again, S30V never really left me wanting in terms of performance. If I ever doubt its edge holding I suppose I could slide that edge along my fingers and call it then and there. My wanting an extra point of hardness is just greed on my part.
He can be happy with the results by virtue of his different expectations, and he can not feel the need to further test it. That is irrelevant to the threads point. The fact that purpose made tools will do specific things better than more general tools is also irrelevant. The point is that some knives can be used to cut copper power cables for a while while some can't. Some can cut rope longer than others, without the edge deforming. The more specific point is that the lesser cutter of the two is a top of the line folder with the latest upgrade of blade steel, which is billed as an improvement over the latest upgrade from a few years ago. The better cutter has a blade steel that is much older, and has somewhat of a ho hum reputation, yet in this case, it outperformed a knife more than 5 times it's cost. Now, cost is not based solely on raw performance, otherwise Victorinox paring knives would be $1000+ knives. However, the difference in performance is fairly obvious.
With regard to singling out a poster, this is not the first post like this in the thread. Posts like that pop up in every test. "Why would I do that with my knife, when there is something that made just for that?" "I don't expect that from my knife, why would you try it?" Many versions of these types of questions have been asked. Cutting light/weak material can be done with virtually any knife. Buy whatever suits your fancy and cut whatever you want. Just be aware that knives are general purpose tools, and can be used in place of the specific purpose ones if the need arrises. Some have broader capability than others and some people ask more of their knives. Fortunately, it appears they can find knives to suit them at a reasonable price.
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Thanks guys for all your responses!
I took the risk of being singled out on purpose!
The reason I made my previous point, is this:
If you buy a new car, and try to run down a brick wall with it, I think you can expect damage to your car.
Wether it will be little or lots, there will be damage! If you expect no damage, i dont think thats realistic!
I even dont think the amount of damage depends on the price of the car!!!
If you would like to run down a brick wall without damaging your vehicle, try using a Bulldozer, and stop crying about crashing your car!
Thanks for reading this, and I'll leave you to your discussion without any more of my 2 cents
Respectfully Yours
Niels
I took the risk of being singled out on purpose!
The reason I made my previous point, is this:
If you buy a new car, and try to run down a brick wall with it, I think you can expect damage to your car.
Wether it will be little or lots, there will be damage! If you expect no damage, i dont think thats realistic!
I even dont think the amount of damage depends on the price of the car!!!
If you would like to run down a brick wall without damaging your vehicle, try using a Bulldozer, and stop crying about crashing your car!
Thanks for reading this, and I'll leave you to your discussion without any more of my 2 cents
Respectfully Yours
Niels
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