Any whitewater paddlers on this forum?

T

Thom Lambert

Joined
Nov 18, 2002
Messages
207
I am doing some research on the rescue/emergency knives that whitewater paddlers carry (while they are on the water), and why. If it applies, I have a couple of questions for you:

What do you carry (make and model)?

Where do you carry it?

Why (for what intended purpose, real or imagined) do you carry a knife?

If you don't want to post here, feel free to email me directly.

Thanks to all,
Thom Lambert
singing.dog@sympatico.ca
 
Oh yeah, there are a bunch of us. I am an amature with a 20 year whitewater addiction.

I cary two. Spydie rescue and Gerber river master. They are only carried on whitewater. I frequently take folks down the Ocoee and other rivers in this area. (There is more cash sunk into rafts and kayaks than in my auto.) Reasonable responsibilities for safety arise when taking a group of folks down a river. Access and thoughtful use of a knife as well as throw ropes and pulleys are part of that responsibility.

I hope I never have to slice a raft to enable a person to surface from beneath a pinned raft, but I know I would not hesitate to do it and the possibility is always present in rapids. Even after being in the sport for 20 years, I still practice with ropes, read and think about rescue situations.

Thankfully all I have ever had to do is treat cuts (from rocks not my knives) and those have been my own when I was learning.

By its nature, a lot of white water is in areas that are quite remote all we have are each-other and our rescue skills to reley on. Most white-water caused deaths or serious injuries are due to taking on water that is too advanced for experience. (or failure to judge the difficulty), not scouting when the horizon is lost or a lack of rescue equipment or skills. Keep those things in mind and to me it is the most enjoyable sport I have participated in and you get to carry a knife while you enjoy that. (Try that on a football, soccer or baseball field :D).
 
I am doing some research on the rescie/emergency knives that whitewater paddlers carry (while they are on the water),
What do you carry (make and model)?
Spyderco Harpy with G-10 scales. This is a pointed hawkbill blade profile folder and proper technique must be used in the dynamics of the river environment or significant injury can and will occur.

Where do you carry it?
In a RiverCity Concealex sheath upside down. It is attached to a Swiftwater rescue PFD and accessible with either hand. I've used Mike's sheaths for 10+ years and they have retained the knife even while taking a chundering in class IV-V whitewater.

Why (for what intended purpose, real or imagined) do you carry a knife?
Dig out splinters. Cut a rescue rope if a swimmer gets entangled. To cut a kayak sprayskirt off the cockpit rim if stuck. Prick the tubes of a pinned raft. Prepare lunch (the most common usage for me).

Heed the wise words of that Bastid fellow. One thing you can say about a 20 year whitewater paddler...they survived!

See You On The River,
Clyde
 
Clyde,
I'm an old paddler now, no more Gualee in the fall, Wilson's Creek or other crazy rivers. I spend my time on the Ocoee (a great playground)and Chatooga now a days (portaging Woodall and Soc 'em dog) :D. I am hoping Little River will be running decently soon. That is a great trip, but you gotta scout a lot along some pretty steep banks.
 
....Maybe I will see you on the river some time. I am a canadian paddler, but cross the border several times a year for paddling trips - mostly for creek boating since we don't have much of that here in Ontario.

Let me know if you are venturing up this way anytime....if you think the Ocoee is good for playing, you have to check out the Ottawa.

Thom
 
Hi Thom,

I've been paddling for awhile, mostly on the Arkansas in Colorado -- Brown's canyon is one of the best stretches of whitewater in the world -- lots of rapids, big 3+, and not too much danger, a great playground. I carry a CKRT stiff KISS on my swiftwater for emergencies (fortunately I've never used it), and a Spyderco Endura in one of the pockets for everyday utility, like making lunch. happy paddling.
 
I used to do a fair bit of whitewater canoeing but now I mostly do casual canoeing and fairly remote ocean kayaking. The next major whitewater river will likely be the Hood up in the Arctic.
I had Niel Blackwood make me a river knife variation of his small hunter design with some changes suggested by me and some by Gus K. It's stellite, top edge serrated, exposed flatenned tang, skeletonized handle with micarta scales. Gorgeous. Before that i used a gerber standard river knife. Never liked it and found it less than useful. I usually carry mine inverted on my PFD [I used to carry the gerber handle up - long story- although I carry it, or a standard Blackwood talonite - as a neck knife if I am wearing a survival suit and kayaking. I usually wear a bigger belt knife but that's of limited use when the canoe is covered for heavy rapids.
Why do I wear a knife? besides for scooping peanut butter and slicing salami and cheese for lunch? It is not difficult for someone, me or someone else, to get tangled in a line, stuck in a canoe cover or wedged in the branches of a sweeper and a knife would be handy. Also, if you get dumped and have a bit of a swim in arctic waters, you'd better be able to make a fire when you pull yourself out and a knife comes in handy there too. Also, you might be attacked by a wild rabbit or a nasty chipmunk - you can never be too careful :)

For ocean kayaking, there are more uses, and a an ice ax or large blade is important in the arctic or antarctic, but that's another story.
 
I've been a whitewater boater since the early eighties and carry a Spyderco Merlin (older plastic clip model) in one of my sheaths, attached to the chest adjustment straps of my PFD, This keeps it immediately accessible, but out of the way of any movements I make. I'll be replacing it with Spyderco's SpyderHawk because of the larger cutting surface. In rescue situations time is critical, so you want the most cut per slice you can get, while keeping the knife in a reasonablly sized package. Clyde's already defined most of the reasons for using this blade shape, which I beleive to be the most efficient and safe for rescue work.
 
Mike, Mike , Mike...

You gotta getcha a Blackwood, dude :D
 
...and any other hawkbill fans. I understand the hawkbill blade shape for it's slicing power. How do you feel about the sharp point of those blades? My general premise is that a sharp pointed knife, as a rescue tool, may be as dangerous as it is useful. Any thoughts?

As an aside...this is a great forum! I have frequented whitewater forums for several years - I used to moderate a busy one - and I find it almost impossible to carry on any kind of reasonable discussion on those forums without getting flamed, attacked, or wading through lots of useless responses. Folks on this forum are respectful of one another, even if they disagree. Thanks!

Thom
 
Thom,

First of all, use the tool you are most comfortable working with as a rescue knife. If you understand the Hawkbill, it actually has built in safety capabilities. If you need to cut rope, webbing, etc. from an entangled limb, and you don't have a free peice to cut, by placing the blade spine against the victim (edge and point up), you can easily and safely make the cut - any slip will push the edge and point away from the victim because of the curved shape. Whitwater is not a stable platform and there will be slips. Also in the case of a broken limb, or any time the clothing must be removed from the victim, same blade position (spine against victim) and the clothes zip right off safely. If you've been on the whitewater boards, you probably know about the incident on the Ocoee a few years back, where an unconcious paddler had to be cut out of his sprayskirt because the grab loop was inside. A fixed blade was used, an unfortunately cut the boater's femoral artery (legs won't be where you expect them in such a situation). Choke up on handle, cap the spine of a hawkbill with your thumb, and you can make a controled cut around the cockpit rim with only an eigth to a quarter inch of the blade inside the boat. Ever get a splinter from a well used graphite bladed paddle? You'll want a point for splinter removal. Have to unpin a wrapped raft and can't access the valve to deflate one of the tubes - a sheepsfoot blade will make a slice; a pointy knife a smal puncture - less to repair afterwards. Again, use the tools you are most comfortable with, but I've been in some rescue situations and I'm very, very comfortable with a Hawk.
 
Hi Guys,

I've been running rivers around here for about 10-12 years.
But, I don't paddle, I row a raft.
Usually have a Spydie of some sort in a pocket for general use.
(That means slicing lime for the beer)
Also had a Tekna attached to my PFD for emergency cutting of
ropes, boats and such. The Tenkna is a SS double edged dagger
type blade on it. With about 50/50 SE/PE.
After reading Mike's post, I'm going to try the Spyderhawk this
year.

That's only if there is a little more water in the rivers this
year.

Bruceter
 
Originally posted by Bruceter
I'm going to try the Spyderhawk this year.
That's only if there is a little more water in the rivers this
year. Bruceter
Click to expand...

Ditto for myself when I get a few projects cleared up. We are hoping for more rain here in the southeast also. This winter has seen some flow but the previous years of dry conditions have meant repetitive trips on the same dam controlled rivers...and big crowds!
Stay Safe,
Clyde
p.s. Bastid I'm with you on walking Soc-Em-Dog! I've run the river right sneak of Woodall's but stay away from the main drop.
 
Clyde,
If the water tables up there rise and you have not had the chance you would love Little River Canyon in NE AL near Fort Payne. The beauty is like nothing else I have seeen in the east.

Like you as much as I enjoy it those dam controled rivers are geeting old. On weekends it seems as if you could walk on rafts all the way down the river. Every time I am getting in a decent surf it seems like I am getting run over by one of those oversized ballons. (Of course a lot of times when a bunch of folks decide to go with us, I am guiding one of those ballons :).

My brother lives in MA and is into sea kayaking. Need to hook him up with you for a sheath.

This age stuff sucks. I am trying to rehab a partially torn rotator cuff before spring. (left shoulder so I know it is from guiding rafts, since I guide from the left).

Never answered where I carry my W.W. knife. - Sheath is lashed to high left brest of PFD handle down. I ran a loop of nylon string around the frame (both sides) of the Gerber and the spring (close to the point where the spring enganges the sheath to increase the tension keeping the knife more secure in the sheath. (I swam a lot when I was learning to guide a raft :)). Folder might end up in a dry-bag or a velcro pocket of a splash jacket. One of these days, Neil will finish one like HJK's for me and it will replace the Gerber.
 
What : I carry 5" blade sheath knife, Ontario SPC23 Magnum Ranger. Where : It is on a military cloth belt around my waist. (I want it with me even if boat sinks, etc.)
Purposes : cutting food, survival, last-ditch self-defense, emergencies.

Actual emergency experience : snapped a wooden paddle in two while going down a flooded river in north La. Whittled groves around the two pieces with knife and lashed together with cord to make short-handled paddle that lasted til trip was over two days later.
 
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