Anyone else sick of Magnacut already…

[Blues]

A trendy new hair salon. Now that makes sense!

I actually thought you were being sarcastic when you asked, so I gave you what I considered an appropriate reply.

Since, apparently, you're the first person I've run into on this site, (in I don't know how long), who actually didn't know what it was...my apologies.

 

[goldie]

Is the spike in price justified ? Seems to be available ? There is definitely a price hike on every knife in this steel. That alone is stopping me from getting it.Heres a price hike example; The CS Recon 1 is around 90-120 ; its coming out in magnacut its gonna be 259.00 ...

 

[David Mary]

Honestly can’t tell if you’re trolling.

Really? El Jay and matt009au are clearly Jay Fisher sock puppet accounts (I jest!). He's the only one I have seen make a serious () claim to be sick of MagnaCut. I certainly am not. I mean I don't like working with it as well as with my other alloys like 15N20 and AEBL because it takes longer to grind the geometry and is a real pain to make it look decent once there, but aside from that, I love how it cuts, how it performs, how it sharpens, and most of all how it resists corrosion.

 

[DeadboxHero]

[/QUOTE]

You didn't read my post. I'm talking about the loss of toughness.

Josey,
I did, it just didn't make any sense and I didn't want to point it out and make you feel upset.

When MC is taken up to 64 Rc, it drops to about the same toughness as the softer Vanax, with almost the same abrasive wear resistance.

You said MagnaCut has the same toughness at 64rc as Vanax at ~60rc; "about12ft/lbs"

Copy that

But if you take MC up to 64 Rc and thin out the edge and made the edge angle more acute, you now make the MC edge more vulnerable to chipping, breaking and cracking than the Vanax blade.

Yet, same post, you said MagnaCut at 64rc had the same toughness as Vanax at ~60rc but now 64rc is more brittle.

Nah.

MC at 61 Rc and at 64 Rc do not perform the same. How you use the knife will depend on what hardness works best for you.

Seems to be some confusion between hardness and edge geometry.

Geometry comes first when moving down the problem flow chart.

As you know, edge geometry is not a one size fits all, some folks need more obtuse angles to match their style of use. Some folks need thinner for better cutting ability.

Should be a simple test for folks to figure out as you already know.

If the edge is going dull too soon. Drop the angle, if it starts taking damage go thicker, nothing you haven't heard already.

Custom edge angles now locked in to the exact needs of that exact user.

If performance is not satisfactory the first thing someone should say should be:

"What's my edge angle and edge finish and am I apexed?"

Not:

"Where's my Rockwell tester? My edge isn't working"

 

[RoyalHolic]

Is the spike in price justified ? Seems to be available ? There is definitely a price hike on every knife in this steel. That alone is stopping me from getting it.Heres a price hike example; The CS Recon 1 is around 90-120 ; its coming out in magnacut its gonna be 259.00 ...

S35vn is a 15 year old steel, it's been surpassed by quite a few different steels and while it's still great the price hike for Magnacut is justified as it's a lot newer and it's better, now whether the amount $$$ increased is justified that's another story.

Market will dictate and if Recon's are laying on the shelves for months well be ready for some nice discounts.

 

[Delgadonine]

If performance is not satisfactory the first thing someone should say should be:

"What's my edge angle and edge finish and am I apexed?"

Not:

"Where's my Rockwell tester? My edge isn't working"

I believe this literally sums it all up.

Sharpening a knife isn't just a skill-set, but also a work in progress. Either you know the steel or not.

Hopefully, the maker starts one down the right path. Though, I'm guessing-'the owner knows best' mindset will occur.

I'm still an amateur, tbh.

 

[StrangeDaze]

Magnacut seems to be an improvement in the balanced steel category. Which is what WOULD make it a good baseline steel to have almost everywhere. I’m sure specialty knives for specialty applications will still choose their steel based on what the knife is meant to be used for.
I only have 1 knife in Magnacut but haven’t had a chance to really use it much. Based on the data though, i would rather have Magnacut everywhere instead of s30v.
My personal preference for steel is mostly more basic carbon steels such as 52100, 5160, A2 and O1.
I still own and use other types of steels and not having my favorite steel wouldn’t prevent me from buying a knife.

 

[norcalAF]

Not yet!

 

[DavidABQ]

I actually thought you were being sarcastic when you asked, so I gave you what I considered an appropriate reply.

Since, apparently, you're the first person I've run into on this site, (in I don't know how long), who actually didn't know what it was...my apologies.

No harm and foul. It is all good.

 

[SharpBits]

I guess I will be more clear, most large manufacturers buy steel lots measured in tons in order to get lowest cost per blade and to keep the manufacturing pipeline full. So, they are sitting on tons of blade steel at any given moment, all purchased before the pandemic and related economic woes. Now Maganacut comes along and many people want it so they have to buy more steel at today's prices. Plus, they still need to move the existing stock that fewer people want. There may even be increased costs in grinding & heat treating MC, I don't know. Since the customer always pays for every cost incurred by the manufacturers (one way or another) you can now see why we pay more. And, as I said before, a few are exploiting that, so choose wisely.

 

[irsh]

I didn't read everyone's comments yet and haven't purchased a new knife in a while. Is Magnacut popularity driving the price of other steels down?
Cheaper S35, CW and V3 please!

 

[vinprom]

Curious whether India Stone is good for Magnacut? Another question, since 63-64 HRC is kinda confusing - does the good enough toughness goes only for the edge (chipping), or also for the whole blade (snapping)?

 

[Modernflame]

I guess I will be more clear, most large manufacturers buy steel lots measured in tons in order to get lowest cost per blade and to keep the manufacturing pipeline full. So, they are sitting on tons of blade steel at any given moment, all purchased before the pandemic and related economic woes. Now Maganacut comes along and many people want it so they have to buy more steel at today's prices. Plus, they still need to move the existing stock that fewer people want. There may even be increased costs in grinding & heat treating MC, I don't know. Since the customer always pays for every cost incurred by the manufacturers (one way or another) you can now see why we pay more. And, as I said before, a few are exploiting that, so choose wisely.

I heard Larrin say somewhere--and I'm paraphrasing--that the knife industry was shocked by the speed and suddenness with with Magnacut was released. I'm guessing this has to do with the economic issues you summarized. He went on to say, again paraphrasing, that the release of his next steel will be slower.

 

[navman]

Actually kinda pissed at myself for not jumping on an opportunity I had to try Magnacut, basically, for free. Dwyer offered me several bars at Blade last year and I forgot to pick them up at the show. (to be fair, bourbon was involved).

 

[SharpBits]

Actually kinda pissed at myself for not jumping on an opportunity I had to try Magnacut, basically, for free. Dwyer offered me several bars at Blade last year and I forgot to pick them up at the show. (to be fair, bourbon was involved).

The good Doctor Larrin said he likes S90V, so you are good.

 

[ace]

Although I haven't used MagnaCut, I do see it as a really good new steel. However, people are missing its true advantages.

At 61 Rc, MagnaCut gets 505 TCC in Catra wear resistance and rates at 17 ft-lbs of toughness (resistance to chipping and breaking). That's not a ton wear resistance, but good. It's about the same as D2 at that hardness, and less than 4V (525 TCC), Vanax (545 TCC) and S30V (550 TCC).

The advantage, at 61 Rc, is in toughness -- 17 ft-lbs. By comparison, D2 at that hardness is about 5 ft-lbs. A2 is about 13 ft-lbs. M4 is about 14 or 15. Vanax at 60 Rc (61 is a stretch for Vanax) is 12 ft-lbs. S35Vn is 10 ft-lbs. AEB-L is about 32 ft-lbs (but only 355 TCC).

So at 61 Rc, MagnaCut has decent wear resistance and a lot of toughness. It owns this hardness category.

But take that hardness up to 64 Rc, like Chris Reeve, and the story changes. The wear resistance goes up a bit to 550 TCC and the toughness falls to 12 ft-lbs. That makes MagnaCut and Vanax almost identical in toughness and wear resistance. And Vanax is finer grained and more stain resistant -- although by very small amounts.

Cruwear at 62 Rc gets 525 TCC -- almost as much as MagnaCut at 64 -- but a lot more toughness: 12 ft-lbs vs 22.5 ft-lbs.

In addition to what DeadboxHero said about grain size of MagnaCut and Vanax you are missing the benefit that same wear resistance and toughness at higher hardness gives you. Vanax at 61 vs MagnaCut at 64 with the same wear resistance and toughness, that's brilliant and the genius of the steel. MagnaCut is a flexible steel for some applications treating it softer for higher toughness is appropriate for some applications higher hardness with still very good toughness is better. I'd argue that for small knives and especially folders treating it harder is advantageous. Same for most kitchen knives.

 

[Twindog]

In addition to what DeadboxHero said about grain size of MagnaCut and Vanax you are missing the benefit that same wear resistance and toughness at higher hardness gives you. Vanax at 61 vs MagnaCut at 64 with the same wear resistance and toughness, that's brilliant and the genius of the steel. MagnaCut is a flexible steel for some applications treating it softer for higher toughness is appropriate for some applications higher hardness with still very good toughness is better. I'd argue that for small knives and especially folders treating it harder is advantageous. Same for most kitchen knives.

Here's what Larrin says about grain size:

"The only stainless PM steel I have imaged which is competitive [with MagnaCut] in terms of carbide/nitride size is Vanax."

My point about running MagnaCut at 64 Rc, rather than 61 Rc, is that you lose a ton of toughness (resistance to chipping, breaking and cracking) in exchange for a very small (8.9 percent) increase in wear resistance.

If all you're cutting is jellyrolls and scotch tape, then go for the hardness.

But if you use your knife normally -- or if you use it occasionally for hard use -- you will appreciate the increased toughness at 61 Rc. High toughness is the magic in MagnaCut.

And that increased toughness at 61 Rc is more likely, in real world use, to improve the service life of your edge than the increased wear resistance of running the steel super hard.

 

[DeadboxHero]

Here's what Larrin says about grain size:

"The only stainless PM steel I have imaged which is competitive [with MagnaCut] in terms of carbide/nitride size is Vanax."

My point about running MagnaCut at 64 Rc, rather than 61 Rc, is that you lose a ton of toughness (resistance to chipping, breaking and cracking) in exchange for a very small (8.9 percent) increase in wear resistance.

If all you're cutting is jellyrolls and scotch tape, then go for the hardness.

But if you use your knife normally -- or if you use it occasionally for hard use -- you will appreciate the increased toughness at 61 Rc. High toughness is the magic in MagnaCut.

And that increased toughness at 61 Rc is more likely, in real world use, to improve the service life of your edge than the increased wear resistance of running the steel super hard.

Plenty tough at 64.5rc, chopped a 16d nail in half and took less damage than SOFT 1095 at the same edge angle even with thinner behind the edge thickness.

You even showed from Larrin's test data that MagnaCut at 64rc was as tough as softer Vanax.

Seems to be some misunderstanding here.

 

[ace]

Here's what Larrin says about grain size:

"The only stainless PM steel I have imaged which is competitive [with MagnaCut] in terms of carbide/nitride size is Vanax."

My point about running MagnaCut at 64 Rc, rather than 61 Rc, is that you lose a ton of toughness (resistance to chipping, breaking and cracking) in exchange for a very small (8.9 percent) increase in wear resistance.

If all you're cutting is jellyrolls and scotch tape, then go for the hardness.

But if you use your knife normally -- or if you use it occasionally for hard use -- you will appreciate the increased toughness at 61 Rc. High toughness is the magic in MagnaCut.

And that increased toughness at 61 Rc is more likely, in real world use, to improve the service life of your edge than the increased wear resistance of running the steel super hard.

You are making 2 questionable assumptions and I think this is why you keep on saying that MagnaCut should be run softer.

1. Uses differ. In some applications you would be correct that MagnaCut should be run softer for improved toughness. In other cases it should be run harder. You are making an assumption that harder MagnaCut won't work for your use, but you haven't used it so I am not sure why you think it is not tough enough. It is tougher at 63-64 than Vanax at 61. I don't know if it is tougher enough for you, but neither do you.

2. You are making an assumption that MagnaCut is being treated harder for improved wear resistance, but I doubt that's the case. In the majority of cases MagnaCut is run harder not to increase wear resistance, but to increase strength, resistance to deformation. Higher strength with still good toughness has benefits outside of higher wear resistance. Higher edge stability is always preferred, since deformation is as or more difficult to fix as microchipping and deformation can cause more dulling than chipping. MagnaCut is in the middle for wear resistance, but it has the best balance among all the attributes.

Great balance of all the properties is the best quality of MagnaCut, It is a very flexible steel and can be used in a variety of roles. In thin kitchen knife edges you want higher hardness so that you can have more acute edges for example. Same with small knives. MagnaCut is an extremely well balanced steel that can and should replace a bunch of other steels used today. It will not replace all steels since for some applications other steels are better due to their properties.

Staying with the OPs theme, I am sick of people thinking that there is a magic hardness number MagnaCut should be run at. Some say it should be softer, some it should be harder when in reality it depends on the application. In addition I am sick of people that have never used it making judgement calls and giving opinions and recommendations on how and where it should be used and in what condition.

 

[scorpnsnake]

In the name of science, I have another Magnacut blade incoming. Could he wrong, but so.far, it doesn't feel like I'll be sick of it.