Anyone have a dual wheel counter-rotating razor grinder? SEE PICS INSIDE

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I hope that title peaks enough interest in this thread to get the proper information...but I don't know the actual name of this machine.
razor_grinder.jpg

It is a water cooled dual wheeled grinder used in the manufacture of straight razors. The stones can be adjusted closer together and the support base adjusted up and down to alter the dimensions for 3/8, 5/8, 6/8, 7/8 inch razors etc. I've been trying to get contact with one through my straight razor forums but apparently they aren't very common and honestly the only ones I know of for sure belong to major manufacturers like Theirs Issard and DOVO, as well as one custom maker named Lido Livi in Italy.

Now I DO know three were many companies making razors here in the US so I assume there are grinders out there and I thought MAYBE somebody here might have one or know someone who does that might be convinced to help me with a project I had in mind. The project obviously isn't important without the grinder though so I won't bother you with it here.

Guys...if you have ANY kind of connections to this or could ask around to people you know to possibly get access to one for me I'd be eternally grateful. I don't think I'd be interested in buying one unless it came at a dreamy and I meand DREAMY price...only the use of it or someone to use it FOR me on my materials.
 
Check out the adds in the magazines,or do a google on "double wheel hollow grinder".They are made and sold to grind or hone both edges of a blade at one time,thus ensuring an even grind (and cutting time down a lot).Several are commercially available,or you can make your own.
 
bladsmth said:
Check out the adds in the magazines,or do a google on "double wheel hollow grinder".They are made and sold to grind or hone both edges of a blade at one time,thus ensuring an even grind (and cutting time down a lot).Several are commercially available,or you can make your own.
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Wow that was a quick response...although I tried googling and the only thing I've come up with so far is from CATRA and they don't have prices and I assume they will be well beyond my purchasing capacity. So I'm still in the market for a loaner or someone to do my grinds for me.
 
Making your own shouldn't be too difficult. You need a motor, a mount, maybe a shaft, and the wheels, but that's about it.
 
Someone with a conventional belt grinder with the same size contact wheel should be able to obtain the same grinds as the counterroating machine unless you have something unconventional in mind,,,,,
 
I checked,The company is Tru Hone,google "tru hone" and go to the site.Their products are awesome.
 
ok...anyone care to elaborate on the possibility of making one of these? I'm not really a knife maker though I would like to get into it. I just don't have the mony to buy the hardware to get started yet. I was thinking of saving for a sherline mill to start out...but if you think it would be possible to make my own razor grinder I would be very interested giving it a shot.

I've been straight razor shaving for a few months now and I'm convinced I'll never go back to the typical Mach3. That being said...old razors are nice, and new ones are nice too...but custom razors are extremely expensive and generally do not fit my tastes. I'm younger than most straight shavers and my tastes are a bit more modern and industrial which is why I wanted a way to grind or have blades ground.

What kind of ballpark cost could you guesstimate for something like this? Remember the entire point of this is to actually grind straight razors...not just hollow grinding knives. I'm sure I could work out the geometries of the blades I wanted to make pretty easily...but I'd be concerned that a home made rig would be too sloppy to really do something that thin.

Please correct me if I'm wrong...and I REALLY hope I am.
 
Sorry for the double tap but I got responses while I typed the other...

allan lanigan said:
Someone with a conventional belt grinder with the same size contact wheel should be able to obtain the same grinds as the counterroating machine unless you have something unconventional in mind,,,,,
Click to expand...

Ok...anyone feel confident enough to hand grind a straight razor one side at a time? What would it cost for someone to grind say 7 of them if I provide the material and specs? One of them?

Really I'm trying to get estimates on the manufacture of a razor designed with me in mind in order to judge wether or not I could afford a seven piece matching set (common practice...cuts down on sharpening by allowing you to hone all the blades once in a blue moon and letting you rotate the razors increasing length between honing sessions) or simply a single razor. I don't know if that qualifies as unconventional but there's my goal.
 
It depends on how nice you want to make them.Remember it is prohibitively expensive to make one or two of anything.When you have made your 100th (or 10,000th) it gets cost effective.
As far as making one of these - you need two mandrels to attach the grinding wheels to.They need to be on a sliding plane so the distance between them can be minutely adjusted.This would be best done with a wheel handled jack screw that was threaded 1/2 left and 1/2 right threads.The handle on the end would provide the adjustment.The wheels should counter-rotate,so use a two groove drive pulley.Just set the motor at 90 degrees to the shafts and both belts will have a 1/4 twist,one left and one right.Mount the motor on a hinged plate so it can adjust as the wheels are moved in and out.The plane of the swing should be PARALLEL to the drive shafts (90 degrees to the motor shaft).
The rest is just construction and making the support (which should be adjustable).You will need two of several grits of grinding wheels,and hones/buffs to polish the grinds.You will also need a bunch of other machines to finish the razors.
Bottom line - unless you have a machine shop to make this in,a bunch of time and money to spend,and are going into the razor business - It won't be practical.Check out tru hone.It would probably be cheaper.
 
Machines like that were used to double hollow grind knives. They are obsolete now but Berger in Germany mades similiar machines. Current machines are usually CNC controlled and automatically compensate for grinder wear.

Making a machine like that is much much more difficult than it looks if you expect to hold any kind of tolerances. Unless you are skilled at designing and building machines, forget about it. Buying an old one won't cost much if you can still find one. They are worth the scrape weight. A friend here gave one away a while back.

Jürgen Schanz here in Germany is skilled at making straight razors. Google his name and you'll find his website.
 
Larger versions of that grinder are used today in many knife factories, using stone wheels(for lack of a better term)just like yours.

I used to have a catalog from the company that made them, but haven't been able to find it.
Unfortunately, I can't remember the name of the company either.

The catalog I had was from a company currently in business. You might try the various search engines and see what you come up with.
 
Berger and Siepmann are two leading makers of such industrial grinding machines... but they ain't much like that one anymore... and the price is pretty serious.:eek:
 
Wasn't there a company called Nicholas or Nicholson (something like that, anyhow) that made an industrial double grinder years ago for knife factories?
 
I love that video that this grinder was in.
I have been making a few straight razors. I like they way they cut very close!

I would love to have one of these style of grinders.
I was thinking of making one to help with the double hollow grind.
 
This isn't going as well as I had hoped. I was never really interested in buying this machine unless it could be had for like $150 which seems to be far from the case. And nobody seems to have or have access to one which leaves me high and dry in the same position I was in before.

Darrel believe it or not the scales I had in mind I was going to talk to you about. If you DO come up with this machine mayhap we can work something out...I think I can do the scales myself pretty well as they're not complicated for a straight. I'm just trying to find someone to grind some blades for an affordable price...

Anyone think they're bad enough to grind a razor by hand?
 
The only person I know who makes straight razors is: www.schanz-messer.de

He also makes them from Damascus steel as is trained as a master for producing cutting instruments. I have read that most straight razors were ground by hand, not with a machine.


DDR, if you wanted a good double grinder you should have gone to the Schrade auction. I read Benchmade bought their machines. :D

The problem with those real old machines like in the pic is their precision, or lack of it. If you want blades to compete with older, badly ground pocket knives, then such a machine is just for you. That's why my friend here gave the one he had away. You end up with blades that look like they are fresh in from Pakistan.

Somewhat more modern machines require a matrix of the knife blade be made. This is clamped into a holder in the machine and guides the double grinding wheels. I have watched these machine work in factories in Solingen. They take a good bit of set up and produce blades from OK to not so OK. Generally not worth the set up for less than 300 blades. Machine weight is a good 4000 lbs. I don't know what prices are for used machines but these will still have some value.

The modern machines are capable of high preceision and give those really nice grinds you see on knives from today's industry leaders. Such machines cost on the level with a new Mori Seki milling machine and have to run all the time to pay for themselves.

There are some places in the USA who offer contract work but I don't know who they are exactly. RW Clark might be able to help you out there. I know one European company who used to have blades ground in the USA like that. They told me it required a min. 500 blades.

Contact these people: http://www.siepmann-solingen.de/e_produkte/

They can help you out perhaps even hook you up with someone who can do blades for you.
 
Kevin Wilkins said:
The only person I know who makes straight razors is: www.schanz-messer.de

Actually our good friend "Darren Ellis " at http://forgegallery.elliscustomknifeworks.com/ makes straight razors . At least that is what it says on his website . Try him , you won't find a nicer fella to deal with . BTW , just out of curiosity ( I'm pretty sure I know the answer to this question ) which way do the wheels rotate on the machine you are talking about ( and pictured ) ??
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David Wesner said:
Actually our good friend "Darren Ellis " at http://forgegallery.elliscustomknifeworks.com/ makes straight razors . At least that is what it says on his website . Try him , you won't find a nicer fella to deal with.
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...no shit?!...now see, THIS is why I love this place. The answers may not be instant but by god ask and ye SHALL recieve :D I'll be shooting off an email this morning to Mr Ellis. I'm concerned that it's going to cost me several hundred dollars a blade like Mr Livi's razors (PS Kevin check out www.straightrazordesigns.com Maestro Lido Livi's custom razors) which is why I simply want someone who can grind them out for me. The maestro's razors are very beautiful but not my style.
David Wesner said:
BTW , just out of curiosity ( I'm pretty sure I know the answer to this question ) which way do the wheels rotate on the machine you are talking about ( and pictured ) ??
Click to expand...
The wheels counter-rotate with the right going clockwise and the left going counter clockwise so that the grinding forces is passed over the blade going from edge to spine.
 
just my 2 cents

i ground a couple out... just use a 4 to 6 inch wheel on your beltgrinder... and make the grind abit longer... go with sharp new belts and high grit..
- I've made some on my 10 inch wheel ... now thats too big... but still it kinda works

used to make them out of w-1 when i had the small wheels on my machine... and edge quench them...

Greg
 
They are a bitch to rough grind correctly.
The finish is not so bad.
The machine in the film would work well for rough grinding I am sure.

I was thinking of making a pantograph double hollow to save rough time.
I flat grind all of my other blades. I will set up separate machines to do the straight razor blades.

There are other hidden concerns when making the blades. You have to make them so that can be sharpened. I have one here that was custom made.
It cannot be sharpened with stones and a strop. The maker did not do their home work.

The devil is in the details.
:D
 
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