Anyone Use or Have Their Knives Sharpened with a Tormek

[me2]

I've been looking into these machines for a couple weeks and wonder what kind of results can be expected for knives.

 

[Jason B.]

You can get 4k and I think 6k waterstones for them but I still think you can get a sharper edge by hand. I'm sure it will work well but nothing amazing.

 

[cbwx34]

I have one... one of the first sharpeners I got. I actually like it. You can get a decent edge with it. I actually get better results freehand then I do with the jigs. I also like doing some repairs on it because I can concentrate on the grind and not worry about heat buildup. The jigs are great if you want to grind an accurate specific bevel on a knife. BUT, in my opinion, it's real value is in sharpening woodworking tools. If all you're doing is knives, there are better or maybe I should say more cost effective alternatives. Also some other sharpeners I know found it too slow for their tastes, particularly those doing high volume jobs.

Let me know if you have any specific questions. There's also a Tormek's user group in Yahoo ( http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tormekusers/ ), you might want to read thru... but you have to join it to read the messages.
Also Jeff Farris, the guy in this video showing knife sharpening http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYURcwkKGPs is a good guy to deal with.

cbw

 

[me2]

I was intrigued by some comments over on the makers forum that a belt sander (my current speed method) or even dry hand sharpening can heat the edge enough to ruin it. The only way I know to test it with motorized systems is to try the belt sander vs. something like a Tormek. There is not a lot of info here on the Tormek. I'm gonna compare my knife hand sharpened on waterstones and Spyderco ceramics to my belt sander and see if I can tell a difference.

 

[cbwx34]

I don't think it's ever actually been proven one way or the other. "Can" heat the edge and "does" heat the edge, are 2 different things. I personally think as long as you pay attention to what's going on, use a light touch, etc. it's not an issue. Most of what I've read indicates there needs to be a color change to affect the temper, or at least "too hot to touch". A lot of sharpeners use power equipment with good results. Your test would be interesting... how would you test to tell the difference?

If there's any woodworking shops, like a Woodcraft near you, you might call and see if they have a Tormek set up you can try. The one here sometimes does.

Another option... the $$ spent on a Tormek could go a long way toward variable speed on a belt sander....

cbw

 

[Mahoney]

The Tormek really shines if you have a lot of other things to sharpen besides knives, like chisels or scissors. It does a nice job on scissors with a bit of practice. It's OK for knives, primarily for grinding out damage. Serious re-profiling and re-grinding go faster with a coarse belt on the belt sander, but the Tormek does have the advantage of grinding with no risk of drawing the temper. I don't do my "daily knife sharpening" on the Tormek because the edge it leaves is a little coarsely ground for my taste and I'd still want to step the knife through a few sharpening stones to finish up.

 

[catspa]

If you're sharpening a hundred knives a day or more, say at a gun show or even a swap meet, with a Tormek you'll be selling a lot of 220 grit "working sharp" edges, but regrading the stone to 1000 and then ungrading it back to 220 is kinda a PITA and slows you down. The Makita 9820-2 with the 1000 grit stone produces a fine edge quicker, but messier (the swarf piles up on the blade and you have to continually wipe it off to check your progress).

I like to set the two up side by side for flexibility. I grind out nicks or shape on the Tormek 220, swipe each side on the Makita to refine, and back to the tormek leather wheel with green compound for stropping (which it does much slower than a Foley-Belsaw 327 scissor grinder, but quick enough for gun shows usually). That satisfies 99 out of 100 people who only carry one knife. When a fellow walks up and empties 4 or 5 knives out of his pockets, I know I better step up my game.

I've never overheated a blade on either the Tormek or the Makita (both water-cooled). I've showed blue spots on both the FB 327 with a 220 grit wheel and an old FB 1055 sharp-all (both at 3450 RPM) but after a while I developed a light touch and now I don't overheat them.

If you were on this coast you could drop by and try them all out.

I think I'll soon be in the market for another Tormek leather wheel, mine is getting worn down. You can get finer stones for the Tormek but I think they're about 150 bucks per, maybe a little spendy for your use? If I had another Tormek wheel, I'd leave it graded it up and switch wheels, and leave the Makita at home. One thing they don't tell you about the Tormek, you can freehand flat grind on the side of the wheel...

Parker

 

[cbwx34]

The Tormek really shines if you have a lot of other things to sharpen besides knives, like chisels or scissors. It does a nice job on scissors with a bit of practice. It's OK for knives, primarily for grinding out damage. Serious re-profiling and re-grinding go faster with a coarse belt on the belt sander, but the Tormek does have the advantage of grinding with no risk of drawing the temper.

Couldn't agree more, and I would add woodturning tools. Combined with the jigs, it's real strength is in those.

One thing they don't tell you about the Tormek, you can freehand flat grind on the side of the wheel...

Sure they do, they just hide it under the chisel section... You are right though, they don't mention it for knives.

Your post remeinded me of Steve's (sharpeningmadeeasy.com) site. He uses the Tormek, followed by honing on a paper polish Sharpening Wheel. (BTW, he posted he's gotten good results with the new Silicon SB-250 wheel. I think he said faster results, and less wear on the wheel. It may interest you... he also does volume "on-site" sharpening).

...back to the tormek leather wheel with green compound for stropping (which it does much slower than a Foley-Belsaw 327 scissor grinder, but quick enough for gun shows usually).

I tried other compounds, and ended up going back to the Tormek compound for their leather wheel. It leaves a good finish, plus I found it to be a bit more aggressive, wihich offset's the wheel's slower speed.

Interesting pairing it with a Makita. Never tried one. Was it bought for that, or did you already have the Makita and just found it to be a good combo?

cbw

 

[catspa]

cbw, I had the Makita first by a few years. A buddy had the Tormek, and I considered it at the time, but sharpening my own planer blades was a big deal for me, and I think the Makita is jigged much better for that task. And I prefer flat-ground paring chisels and plane irons in use, don't turn much (I hear the Tormek really does a nice job on lathe tools). But when I fell into a good deal on an older Tormek 2000, hardly used, I snapped it up, and found it complimented the Makita nicely.

I have some Tormek compound somewhere around here that came with it, but I never used it. Maybe I should give it a try. And I'll look up Steve's site and that silicon wheel when I get a chance. Thanks for mentioning those.

Parker

 

[cbwx34]

Thanks for the reply. Just outta curiosity, do you freehand the knives, or do you use the jig?

cbw

 

[catspa]

Mmmmm, probly about 80/20 freehand to jig, depending on blade shape and size and how busy. Tormek makes 2 knife jigs, both work well but getting the knife in there perfect requires a little practice. Blades with a concave segment always get freehanded, and I appreciate the curve of the Tormek wheel for that. Big blades I tend to jig, just because they can be a little awkward and more edge means a steadier hand to maintain the angle down the length. I've experimented briefly with variable grinds, need to fool with it more, undecided yet. Hope that answers your question.

Parker

 

[cbwx34]

Hope that answers your question.

Perfectly! Thanks

cbw

 

[changeofseasons]

My opinion is a bit different. I like the tormek type system ok only for use with some knives. I dislike using it for anything else. I've used it to put a perfect hollow grind on some folding skinners. I then skipped the leather wheel and proceeded to a paper wheel setup with a tormek bar. This will polish inside the hollow edge without convexing it, like is easy to do when freehanding on the wheels. Note that this is something I've done for a very specific application. I use stones or a belt grinder for everything else including tools.

If you like jigs, the Viel 1 X 42 belt sander works well. They sell a knife table attachment and scissor attachment. Although I wouldn't do it, the scissor attachment can be used to hold a knife. You can also weld a tormek style bar to fit the sander and use the optional adjustment wheel as a micro-adjust. Then the tormek jigs would become available for use on it.

 

[LordNelson]

I've been looking into these machines for a couple weeks and wonder what kind of results can be expected for knives.

I have been running a knife sharpening business using the Tormek T7 for a few years. I use the standard wheel and a 4k wheel for finishing. I get blades so sharp, you can shave with them. I use that to demonstrate to customers just how sharp my blades turn out.

 

[HeavyHanded]

I've been looking into these machines for a couple weeks and wonder what kind of results can be expected for knives.

I have a Triton wet grinder that is a 10" wheel knock-off, it does a good job...but it is a PITA to do different belly geometries on knives. Smaller knives likewise are a pain. Overall it is very slow, and the edge is maybe not as durable since it uses a micro hollow grind.

That said, it can make a very nice edge. Once you get familiar with it, set-up time does go down, but it still quite slow in use.

 

[LordNelson]

I've been looking into these machines for a couple weeks and wonder what kind of results can be expected for knives.

Just as a follow-up to my previous answer. If a knife isn't too bad it takes me approximately 10 minutes to sharpen both sides and another minute or two on the leather wheel or strop, depending. If the blade is very bad and the wheel has to be graded from 220 to 1000, it takes a few minutes more. In that case I do all the knives on 220 first and when all have been done, I grade the stone to 1000 and do them again. I use a black marker to mark the blades so that I can match how they were mounted in the holder. That little tip makes a world of difference. For really discerning customers I then mount a 4K wheel and do the blades again before stropping. The blades come up so sharp, you can shave with them.

 

[c7m2p3]

I was intrigued by some comments over on the makers forum that a belt sander (my current speed method) or even dry hand sharpening can heat the edge enough to ruin it. The only way I know to test it with motorized systems is to try the belt sander vs. something like a Tormek. There is not a lot of info here on the Tormek. I'm gonna compare my knife hand sharpened on waterstones and Spyderco ceramics to my belt sander and see if I can tell a difference.

A lot of ink has been spilled, or should I say typed, over several threads on how much a belt sander will or will not overheat an edge. The consensus is that there is no consensus because there is really no way to know, its all subjective. How sharp a knife "feels" is difficult to quantify and trying to adjust for the differences in edge geometry caused by a belt sander being more of a convex edge versus the v grind of a sharpmaker could be the majority of the difference in performance people see.

Essentially I have gone to using the belt sander to sharpen up knives quick that I just want to put an edge on fast and am not really looking for peak performance out of. Kitchen knives, fixed blades, knives that are almost exclusively used for box cutting all get the belt sander. The higher quality pocket knives usually are put in a clamp system.

 

[me2]

Interesting this comes back up. I’ve basically abandoned sharpening with a belt sander, or at least with a 1x30 cheap sander. I couldn’t do it without over hearing the edge and getting damage is anything more demanding that soft foods prep, soft vegetables and boneless meat. I’ve also modified my freehand sharpening to maximize speed for those times it’s necessary. I do that with water soaked stones mostly to keep the dust down. There is an associate at work that uses a Tormek, but I’ve never tried one.

 

[c7m2p3]

Interesting this comes back up. I’ve basically abandoned sharpening with a belt sander, or at least with a 1x30 cheap sander. I couldn’t do it without over hearing the edge and getting damage is anything more demanding that soft foods prep, soft vegetables and boneless meat. I’ve also modified my freehand sharpening to maximize speed for those times it’s necessary. I do that with water soaked stones mostly to keep the dust down. There is an associate at work that uses a Tormek, but I’ve never tried one.

This is the issue though, so many have had such different experiences. Personally I have not used a 1x30 my experience has been exclusively with the blade grinder attachment on the worksharp so its more like 1x18 though that shouldnt change the overheating issue. In a clamped system or freehand I can produce finer edges that will last longer...but at the same time I dont see the rolling or the chipping damage that has been reported out of the belt sander. My harder use knives that do cardboard and light wood chopping are the ones that spend the most time on the grinder (they dont tend to fit in clamped systems) so if i were going to see some chipping and rolling that is where it would start to present itself. If it doesnt work for you with the steel that you are working on thats fine I just dont think there is a consensus here. No one has been able to conclusively do scientific tests on the retained heat treatment at the edge after being on a belt sander.

 

[catspa]

Wow, how time flies by...

If I thought my belt sanders were overheating my edges, I would try to slow them down. Not very feasible for the direct drive ones, but I have a couple belt drive belt sanders that it worked pretty well with.

Parker