Are FMA like playing an instrument?

C

cybrok

Joined
Aug 7, 2005
Messages
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Sounds weird but let me explain.

I started to play guitar in grade 6. First I had 3 years of private class, then I learned by myself.

To me, you need to have some basic skills to be able to learn by yourself, but it's possible.

Now I had 3 months of Kali classes, but I go back home in 2 weeks, so only 2 or 3 more classes.

If I have a partner to train with, would DVDs help me to learn more or you really need a teacher?

thanks
 
The DeQuerdas nerve manipulations and destructions of Gil Tenio, Johnny LaCoste and a few others is very much like playing guitar, flamingo guitar if you will. Think of the limbs as a fret board and have at it! It has always been relayed to us by our FMA elders here in stockton that the best escrimadors are the ones who play the guitar, are the best dancers and also if they don't blink, you are in big trouble! In some FMA systems, DeQuerdas literally translates to chords and string manipulations much like those on the guitar.

Matador-
 
No, I dont think that is a good parallel. Each FMA system can be unique, so you need to lean and master not only the basics, but also the advanced material of whichever system you train. Otherwise you will only have a understanding of just your basics. Problem is a lot of guys train in the basics, move to another system, learn the basics, and move on again. Its like the guys I used to see when I operated a Karate Studio who would come in and train to a basic belt level, then move on. They could be very good with the basic material, but it was still lower level material and they never devolped beyond that. I know a lot of guys who can play a few cords and tunes on their guitar, and can strum along singing around a camp fire, but you could'nt really say they were accomplished players just becaue they knew some basic stuff. Also, I have only trained full time for about 2 years in a FMA and would say I did'nt really begin to be able to understand what I was learing until I had trained almost a year.
 
Thanks Colt.

I hope a Kali school will open in Quebec city soon :(

I agree I don't want to be a beginner in a lot of styles, basics are only what you need to go further.

As for guitar, I learned the basics with a good teacher, trying a lot of styles. Then learned with the best by videos or articles.

Before I got in Universiy and like, play less than I would love to, I was able to play some Yngwie Malmsteen's stuff.
 
Each FMA system can be unique, so you need to lean and master not only the basics, but also the advanced material of whichever system you train.
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While I agree that uniqueness is a strong point to the Filipino methods I too feel that they share commonalities as opposed to differences. However I disagree with the assumption of advanced material or material presented as such. In my opinion it is all basics the only thing advanced is the thought process of the individual or lack their of.


Otherwise you will only have a understanding of just your basics. Problem is a lot of guys train in the basics, move to another system, learn the basics, and move on again.
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Discipline hopping is always going to be there. I do not find it an alarming trend though. On the contrary, If a person feels he has gotten what he needed from any discipline and feels a need to vamos then so be it, that is his choice. I always tell my students to build their foundations solid and if they wish to venture into other avenues that they feel will complement their personal journey then who am I or anyone to say NO. I to have studied various systems but the systems I studied I understood before moving on and I made sure all the systems that I worked flowed well in unison. After all it is all simple movement if one chooses to come out of their gilded box and see truth as it relates to their journey and the manifestation of simplicity.



Its like the guys I used to see when I operated a Karate Studio who would come in and train to a basic belt level, then move on. They could be very good with the basic material, but it was still lower level material and they never devolped beyond that.
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What is a basic belt level? I studied Goju ryu for 8 years and earned a Nidan ranking so forgive me if I seem a bit gruff but I do not understand the premise of basic level verse advanced level. A punch is a punch, a kick a kick, a throw a throw etc etc etc....Are you saying that the katas at the kyu rankings and higher were advanced? Perhaps it is just I but I never look at martial arts on a basic to advanced sliding scale...it is simple movement, that is all, and if one learns it as such the progression in skill is quick to come with the knowledge being absorbed. IMHO to break down a system into quadrants, one saying basic the other advanced just lends confusion to students who are already a bit perplexed by anything new!



I know a lot of guys who can play a few cords and tunes on their guitar, and can strum along singing around a camp fire, but you could'nt really say they were accomplished players just becaue they knew some basic stuff.
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No maybe not accomplished in the eyes of guitar player's who make their passion into their life's work and who accomplish great things, but none the less they are playing and if that is their goal to be able to play around a camp fire perhaps they have succeeded in their intent!



Also, I have only trained full time for about 2 years in a FMA and would say I did'nt really begin to be able to understand what I was learing until I had trained almost a year.
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This to me seems odd as well. How much time do you dedicate weekly to training? Within 6 months an individual should be flowing with an understanding of simplicity and intent. Many of the Pilipino systems and indigenous Silat systems of Indonesia and Malaysia are designed to be learned A to Z in 6 months to a year (learned not mastered) because they teach their craft with simplicity as one of the main ingredients to success.

I for the life of me do not understand the mentality of a back up system. It is all just movement and I personally believe individuals MUST develope their methods so they fit them. To many times do I see mimikry as opposed to confidant movement.

IMHO to say I will use FMA standing, wrestling on the ground, karate for this, or kung fu for that is just semantics and to damn confusing. I feel much more confidant knowing that all my knowledge and years of work has been culminated into a simple concise, direct package of movement that I can employ whether standing, on the ground with weaponry etc. ..In this way I need to hit the trigger once not a number of times to think about what system I will use if the shit hits the fan in any or all situations!

With respect

PG Michael B
 
Colt6731 said:
No, I dont think that is a good parallel. Each FMA system can be unique, so you need to lean and master not only the basics, but also the advanced material of whichever system you train. Otherwise you will only have a understanding of just your basics. Problem is a lot of guys train in the basics, move to another system, learn the basics, and move on again. Its like the guys I used to see when I operated a Karate Studio who would come in and train to a basic belt level, then move on. They could be very good with the basic material, but it was still lower level material and they never devolped beyond that. I know a lot of guys who can play a few cords and tunes on their guitar, and can strum along singing around a camp fire, but you could'nt really say they were accomplished players just becaue they knew some basic stuff. Also, I have only trained full time for about 2 years in a FMA and would say I did'nt really begin to be able to understand what I was learing until I had trained almost a year.
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The problem, is though, training for 5 years and realizing at the end, you don't have anything useful. I remember reading a great interview on Realfighting.com re: training schedules-- the idea is that you should be able to train around 6 weeks before you being sparring. Not 6 years, or 3 years, or 2. So imagine applying the art next to immediately and training for 3 years vs. the guy who has studied for 5 years and never did live sparring. What is it that he 'knows'? How to flourish a machete better? What you need to know is how to apply the skills under pressure, how to hit like a motherfucker, and not get hit. Legal issues, and avoidance, pre- and post-fight training are also good.

Just because you train doesn't mean the training is proficient and useful. So I'll take drilling the basics and being able to apply them under pressure any day.
 
Definately kukri2, I think a lot of the FMA training is a waist of time, and could be easily cut out and replaced with more reality based methods.
 
Yoshi said:
Definately kukri2, I think a lot of the FMA training is a waist of time, and could be easily cut out and replaced with more reality based methods.
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Ah, now I don't know that for a fact, Yoshi. I honestly don't know because I don't have that breadth of experience. I am willing to learn.

However, I believe that most anything should be close to immediately effective-- everything else is just learning to do it well.
 
[ This to me seems odd as well. How much time do you dedicate weekly to training? Within 6 months an individual should be flowing with an understanding of simplicity and intent. Many of the Pilipino systems and indigenous Silat systems of Indonesia and Malaysia are designed to be learned A to Z in 6 months to a year (learned not mastered) because they teach their craft with simplicity as one of the main ingredients to success.]

I trained my first year a minimum of 4 1/2 hours of class time and trained by myself daily for at least 45 min. Thats actual stick swinging, not exercising or weight lifting. My instructors were Conrad Manaois, Ariel Moses, John McCabe and Murlino Hufana. I am also a 3rd Dan in Tang Soo Do and a 2nd Dan in Aikido. I practiced Manaois Eskrima almost exclusively for those first 2 years and that is pretty much all I do now. Maybe I just was'nt getting it, and i'm sure your students must be much better, however I really dont think you can develope advanced skills in 6 months. Did I know techniques and drills, yes. But within a year I was able to flow, adapt, and utilize my training and those techniques instinctively and with spontanaity(sic). You can teach any dumb monkey to strum a guitar, but can he play? Same for eskrima.
 
Colt6731 said:
[ This to me seems odd as well. How much time do you dedicate weekly to training? Within 6 months an individual should be flowing with an understanding of simplicity and intent. Many of the Pilipino systems and indigenous Silat systems of Indonesia and Malaysia are designed to be learned A to Z in 6 months to a year (learned not mastered) because they teach their craft with simplicity as one of the main ingredients to success.]

I trained my first year a minimum of 4 1/2 hours of class time and trained by myself daily for at least 45 min. Thats actual stick swinging, not exercising or weight lifting. My instructors were Conrad Manaois, Ariel Moses, John McCabe and Murlino Hufana. I am also a 3rd Dan in Tang Soo Do and a 2nd Dan in Aikido. I practiced Manaois Eskrima almost exclusively for those first 2 years and that is pretty much all I do now. Maybe I just was'nt getting it, and i'm sure your students must be much better, however I really dont think you can develope advanced skills in 6 months. Did I know techniques and drills, yes. But within a year I was able to flow, adapt, and utilize my training and those techniques instinctively and with spontanaity(sic). You can teach any dumb monkey to strum a guitar, but can he play? Same for eskrima.
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There might be some confusion: I said spar. Do you need advanced skills to spar? Now, after 1 year, or 2 years, or whatnot, without question you will have <i>advanced</i> skills.
 
Once again, I'd say I am on the same line with Mr. Blackgrave, although Colt rises some good points. However, back to the original question...

As both a FMA practitioner and musician, I have to say that on on a larger scale, there are definitely parallels between the two. If you are learning to play jazz, you start with your chords and scales (abecedario and basic techniques), them move on to putting them together and mixing them up to have more musically sounding results (basic amarra combos while moving around). Afterwards you learn couple of songs and try playing them with a band or with some record (engage in semi-free or free sparing, with protection, limitations...), and as you grow more comfortable with the song structure, your instrument and command of your basic material, you start improvising (you go for even freer forms of sparring or scenario training). Of course the learning process never ends, as there will always be more complex new songs, or even entirely free jam sessions, so you'll always need to back up at speed and chops a little bit and turn back to your basics, until once again you start feeling comfortable and ready to experiment, i.e. become creative.

With this perspective, I think this comparison might even be used with more or less all martial arts, provided that the intention is to be creative with it in the first place.

Finally, with regards to camp-fire troubadours... While I most certainly do not consider them "real" musicians, they have their place as well. first of all they are making sure that most people are having fun, and also they sometimes provide the necessary motivation for others to set off on that road, maybe to become next Coltrane or something. After all, it boils down to what is one's motivation in doing something, everybody have something in their lives that is a hobby, a pastime, something that we have no aspirations to be masters of, but simply to be "a spice of life", and if you ask me, that is completely legitimate.
 
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