"Armor piercing point"

I remember Cold Steel used to run ads with their Tantos driven through car doors with no damage to the tip. Don't know if they still do that, though.
 
Fishbulb wrote:

For a variety of reasons, very few crack heads and muggers wear body armor.
Click to expand...

About 6 months ago I had to help some work buddies over at the psychiatric ward (I work with alcoholic/drug abusers next to the p. ward) to restrain a screaming and flailing guy that just had arrived with police transport. After a closer examination we noticed (while he was belted to the bed) that he wore a level 3 armor under his clothes.

You never know what a person wears and when you do it might be too late.

/Colinz
 
About 15 years ago a salesman was trying to sell soft body armor to a group of police officers. He told them that the vests would stop knives as well as bullets. He put on a vest and gave one of the officers a large knife and said, "stab me." The officer did as instructed and stabbed the salesman in the chest. He died at the scene. (Okla. City)
 
I'm sure tha there are many knives that can penetrate body armor. I wish that none did.

For the first time I heard the expression "guns and knives" used to discuss weapons bans in Europe. Usually, when I hear about knife bans it's about autos, blade lengths, Balisongs, concealed carry, the stuff we've always heard.

Now I sense that the hoplophobes are considering the elusive "assault knife." I can guess the banter; "Who needs a knife that penetrates armor." "Only cops should have a tactical knife." "If you need a knife like that the government should check you out."

Then comes waiting periods, CCW laws, maybe even banning certain knives by name as they did with "black rifles." I can see Feinstein with a CQC7, "This knife isn't needed for deer hunting. No real sports man would ever think of using this knife for sporting purposes."
 
it doesn't help to have some dick murdering 17 people with a handgun, then you'll get a bunch of sheeple to demand among other things, even stricter gun laws and probably stricter knife laws, banning "violent" shows on TV/movies/video games.
I have seen/own all of the above except the gun and you don't see me to killing people.
 
Aztacman... I just logged back onto BFC... haven't check since two days ago.... as I stated in my first post... I don't know what the exact composition was on the vest we tested... it may have been an outdated model, but it was definitely not 'knife proof' Some blades had more difficulty than others actually piercing it- none of them could slsh through it.. one liner lock blade actually broke while stabbing the vest (I won't reveal the manufacturer, as most blades of theirs are very solid) but stabbing the vest, we had several knives penetrate quite deeply...

Thats it..

-Dave
 
Howdy Calyth!

Hey just read your post here.... I must live less than 40 miles from you... and (nothing against Canadians) but your laws SUCK regarding handguns. I know nothing of the regulations in BC regarding knives, but (correct me if I am incorrect) no one in B.C. other that LEO's can own handguns, right? That just kills me. Calyth, please let me know what the laws regarding blade length/concealment there are if you have the info... I don't like to go anywhere without a knife, and would like to got to White Rock soon for dinner! Thanks man,


-Dave
 
When I took this job in Vegas, I was told that after 90 days, they'd issue me a vest.
I spent this time checking out the various locations I'd go to, thinking, "I'm more likely to be stabbed than shot", but relieved my deranged mind with the comforting thought that when I get a vest, at least my torso'll be safe.

90 days passed and I got sized up for the vest.
They bring out this thing that weighs a damned TON and they told me it was "Level 2", basically stops handgun rounds up to a .357 Mag.
I said, "Amen't there anything lighter?"
(I work in Vegas, you know, and after June, it gets, howyousay, warm?)
So they told me they had a Level 3 that'd stop a .44 Mag and was 2 pounds lighter.
I said, "One, please", and smiled cheesily.
I didn't care that it cost $300 more than the heavier one and to be honest, the added protection against a .44 Mag didn't impress me all that much, but it was weight! Weight! Weight!

Then I got it home, and right there on the label it says, "Not an effective defense against edged weapons".
As Homer, the Greek Philosopher, said, "DOH!!

If I had a point to this post, someone email me and lemme know.

Off to soak head,
I remain,
VG
 
Iverson,

Canadians can own handguns, but you ahve to have a permit and there are laws abotu transporting them and such. NO ONE but cops, really, carries handguns around.

As far as the knife laws go, don't carry ninja weapons, don't carry any autos, don't carry any gravity knives (whatever those are) and don't carry any balisongs. Other than that, you can carry around a Sifu or a Grohmann fixed blade or whatever! THe idea, though, is to be modest and don't conceal your knife. A folder clipped to a pocket is fine. an SAK in your pocket is fine. A fixed blade where other can see it is fine. A dagger stuffed down your pants that comes to the attention to the authorities WILL get you in trouble! As it would in Washington, I assume.

I've been to Fatso's in White Rock. man, do they ahve kick ass ribs! And they serve fries in a plastic bucket too. Yummy :)
 
Hey Crayola...

Thanks for responding... I am wondering if knife/gun laws differ from Province-to-Province like they do here State-to-State? Here in WA, there is no STATE law about blade length... It actaully differs by city.

I thought it was illegal in BC to even posess a handgun... but then again, I have never lived there, or read the laws, so may be incorrect (Let me know if I am wrong, and I'll stop cutting off all the Canadians while driving on I-5 on my way to work ;) )

-Dave
 
If you cut off a Canadian, you'll either get a skate or a Tim Bit thrown at you! Fortunately, unless you catch a British Colombian on his way to a shooting range with hand dun and permit in the vehicle, your chances of getting shot are quite low.

There are laws that can vary from province to province, and city to city. However, I think that for the most part if you are sensible, you'll be fine. A call to the White Rock Constabulary (Cop Shop, whatever they are called!) will get you the bi-laws for White Rock.

And unless you want to feel the fury of a 65 pack of Tim-Bits being thrown at you, stop cutting us Canadians off!!! :)
 
I just took all my knives and tested them on my armoire. All of them pierced the armoire. They all therefore have an armoire-piercing point. Now I have to shop for a new armoire. Maybe Ikea sells them. I'm in big trouble.
 
Serious Content:

In the mid-nineties, Winchester introduced a great line of ammunition called "Black Talons". The anti-Second Amendment people successfully labeled the line as "Cop Killers" and Winchester gave in to the pressure and quit making it available to the public.

Seems to me that "Armor Piercing" is a perfect setup for the same thing to happen. Don't these boneheads realize they are arming their foes with this? Heck, the anti-Second Amendment people would have a stronger argument than the situation with Black Talons since this time it's the manufacturer's themselves putting the label on. Jeez.....

These people need to wake up and keep such marketing out of the general public. Can you say "targeted advertising"?

Personally, whether their claims are true or not doesn't matter. I will not purchase anything from a company that is actively, whether they know it or not, working to deny me my constitutional rights.

Think about it - what good is a product whose very advertising helps to contribute to it's being removed from the market?

Fun content:

Anyone remember the Second Chance owner who used to demo his vests by either shooting myself with a .44 magnum, or having someone else do it? He'd done it hundreds of times by the time I saw a video of doing it. Course, it was a new vest each time.
 
I've got a Himalayan Imports Katar that I'll put up against any body armor or car doors anyone happens to have handy...:D

-Dave
 
Plenty of decent knives, and ice-picks and such will penetrate a kevlar vest. Hitting one that has a trauma plate is a different matter.

Several years ago I worked at a retail knife store (national chain store). They decided for liability purposes to send us Spectra and Kevlar gloves. They were pretty thick, and we were supposed to have customers wear them if they wanted to handled knives. We didnt do it at our store as the gloves were so bulky it resulted in clumsy handling and dropping of knives.

Anyways, they sent us 4 of them. We decided to test one. We laid the finger of the glove on a piece of wood and using the managers serrated Spyderco Police model did one moderate pressure slice over the finger.....after that we only had 3 usable gloves :) Whoops.

Im sure the gloves were probably designed for accidental glancing contact with the edge....but our informal test did not instill confidence in the gloves.
 
Again, Kevlar and spectra behaves differently under different circumstances and the human body behaves differently under those circumstances...

Cut resistant gloves... they aren't effective against stabs, but if you were to accidentally run a blade against your hand while wearing one, your arm would automatically attempt to pull away from the blade, thus lessening the chance of a breach. To press the fabric up against a hard object and then slicing through it would be exactly what the fabric was NOT designed for. (kinda like driving your Humvee on the ocean floor)
 
I would think the spectra gloves would've hold up better agains the kevlar stuff.
Iverson, you could bring handguns up here if you wanted to go to a range, but all the hoops that you have to jump through is not with it at all.
As to knives, there's no length requirement, and they must not be concealed. As crayola said, if the clip is out, it's alright. I'd suggest you bring a rather tame looking one in case you come across some grumpy "i hate my job" customs/cops.
For us to get handguns, we have to first get the generic firearms permit, which would allow us to have long arms, and then get the special handguns permit, then we could get handguns. Rather silly IMO because the longarm is much more powerful and if i really going to murder someone, I'd think the longarm would've been more effective....
Again it's a bunch of hoops that we have to jump through. Not that i couldn't get it, but I don't have the money to pay for the firearms safety course.
 
I took a nasty fall on some jagged rocks at the seashore, a few months ago. My pants showed no damage whatsoever; my body underneath was bloodied, with several deep cuts that left scars. This is just one example of a phenomenon I've experienced many times. It's quite possible to get cut or stabbed or severely impacted through undamaged material.

I doubt whether Spectra body armor could stop a hard stab with a knife designed for penetration; but I have even stronger doubts whether body armor that successfully resisted a stab or slash would equate to an uncut body.

Any thoughts or experiences about this?
 
To my American friends here: AMEN on the 2nd ammendment to our Constitution... Also, the labeling of products does indeed seem stupid... It PISSED ME OFF when Black Talon ammo became know as 'cop killer bullets' I forgot to mention that when destroying that vest, we tried a few different rounds to see which would be the most effective... (trust me I WILL NEVER BE AIMING A FIREARM AT ANYONE, UNLESS THEY ARE TRYING TO KILL/HURT/MAIM/ETC... MYSELF OR ANY OF MY LOVED ONES.)

But I still like to know what the effectiveness of any weapon/tool I own is. So this test was pretty fun... back to the Black Talon ammo... Correct me please if I am wrong, but to those Sheeple out there, the sight of a Hollow point round of any sort looks more 'dangerous' than ball or round point ammo, and I can attest that in .357 and .45, Ball or round nose punched through better than ANY hollow point...

I blame the media for a lot of this s**t... THEY are the WORST SHEEPLE out there... they advertise these "horrible destructive cop killing bullets" but don't have a clue as to the physics of the situation (or choose to ignore it). Seems to me that if a bullet is DESIGNED to EXPAND quickly, it will be LESS effective against a 'bullet proof' vest. Hence in MY BOOK, that would make it a "Killer killer" or "Criminal Killer" etc....


Wow, I meant to keep this a quick post... sorry fellas...



To my Canadian Friends here: I wouldn't even think of of bringing anything that remotely looks like a 'weapon' across the border...I went and ate Halibut and Chips in White Rock last night... and had a tough time at the border. See, one of my best freinds died last week from brain cancer, and A WHOLE BUNCH of his buddies, including me (11 women, too!) shaved our heads Bic-bald, as he was bald for the last year of his ,life due to Chemo. I also wear a Goattee, So I guess they though I looked suspicious. (to be fair however, coming back to the USA, they hassled me MUCH more, even searched my truck. I have never even received a parking ticket... let alone done anything 'evil'.... so I just have to smile, step away from the situation and think to myself "these people don't know me" and let it go...

By the way, I was being very 'tongue in cheek' about cutting off Canadians on the freeway. We're brothers, Canadians and Americans. :) So I cut everyoneone off equally!:D

-Dave
 
I'll be at the coast from June 25th until July 2nd. If you cut me off Iverson, you're getting a Tim Bit pelting like no one has ever seen!

Iverson, I liek how you recognize that we are all brothers and sisters, really. There is lots written about the differences between Canadians and Americans, differences in politics, laws (like the 2nd Amendment), and so on. But if you really add things up, there isn't much of a difference. Canadians and Americans are both freedom loving people, who enjoy a good BBQ steak and Battle Bots on t.v. :) I am one of the few Canadians on Bladeforums.com Chat and there isn't any diifference between us all. Except for Timmy's constant farting, but he's kinda special! :)


***Edited to fix spellink errours :)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top