Assisted Opening knives... Where's Spyderco?

jarlaxle said:
Oh, i just thought of another reason i dont like AO. This may only relate to the W&S guys, but you cant baton with the knife partly disengaged. its either open or close, no inbetween.
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Not that I would ever baton with a folder, that"s what fixed blades are for IMO, but if you needed to, you could do so with any folder from Kershaw, including these:





These were just a few of my AO's that I had handy. As you can see, neither all the way open or closed. If necessary, I can take a few pics with them 2/3 or 9/10ths open or whatever. I have both AO and non-AO knives, bought them for functionality, looks, and sometimes price, all from my point of view. I see the AO as an added bonus, and would neither make or break my decision to purchase a knife if it did or did not have it.

J.B said:
I´m not old enough to need assistance in opening my folders. By the way, obviously neither is Paul (The Deacon). :D
A Flipper works best with an AO and limits the lock option to liner lock (except for the pass-through lockbar from SOG). For my liking that narrows down the options too much.
JB
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In the picture above, only 3 of the six knives are liner locks. One is a stud lock, 2 are frame locks (one is even a titanium framelock). Still think your options are narrow? :)
I disagree with your flipper opinion also. In fact, I think it is best without an AO to complement it. Check out a Lahar or a Junkyard Dog II. Very easy to open with just the flipper.

I also love the Spydercos I own as well, my current favourites right now being my Millie in BG-42 and my Mini Manix. Both well designed in their own right.

Rik
 
When I first got into knives (again) I bought a Kershaw Whirlwind (loved that knife) mainly because I was attracted by the cool factor of the AO, but also because of the ergonomics, and clean lines. After loosing two of those knives, I went on a quest for a different knife, and ended up with a Spyderco Native III. While I first found the Spyderhole to be somewhat awkward, after a week, I realized that it was better than the AO of the Kershaw. I had always been a fan of thumb studs and AO, who was skeptical of the opening holes until I tried the Spyderhole. After using the AO for three years, I was sold on the Spyderhole in less than a week of use. It is MHO that the Spyderhole is just as fast (if not faster) than the AO, yet more reliable.

The Speedsafe mechanism does have the “safe” aspect, but beyond that I really think that it’s mainly a “cool factor”, and that’s what attracts most of the buyers. Nothing is faster than the Wave, but the AO’s are definitely sexier. The Wave just works better, and yes, AO does take a little getting used to also. Put it in a NKP’s hands, and they’ll have to figure it out before they run it well.

Another thing about the AO is that, it is just one more thing for Mr. Murphy to mess with. While I carry knives for utility, and not SD, the fact remains that there is always the possibility that they could be employed in a emergency situation. The Spyderhole is more efficient, with less room for failure.

Not only is the Spyderhole a more efficient means of opening, but it also offers more options of opening than the others. Beyond the traditional “flick”(which I try to avoid practicing) and the simple thumb open, there is also the Spyderdrop, and the hole also makes two-handed opening more effective by providing a more solid purchase for the off hand. IMHO, other than “cool factor”, there really isn’t any advantage to the AO over the Spyderhole that I can see (and I am a converted AO/Kershaw fan).

There are actually some people who prefer Spyderco because of the Spyderhole, and even some who like Spyderco because the don’t care for the AO.

All the above statements are my personal opinion. That doesn’t mean that the Spyderhole is superior to the AO, it just means that the Spyderhole is superior to the AO in my case. There are a lot of people who like the AO, just as there are many who prefer the Spyderhole. In the end, you pick the equipment that is best for you and go with it.

I wouldn’t be surprise if Spyderco someday decides to produce an AO. They’ve always been a manufacture that tries to cater to the market’s needs, and AO are quite popular, as well as an attraction to first-time buyers. I personally don’t think the Spyderhole is appropriate for AO, and think a flipper would be required for such a design endeavor.
 
ghostrider said:
When I first got into knives (again) I bought a Kershaw Whirlwind (loved that knife) mainly because I was attracted by the cool factor of the AO, but also because of the ergonomics, and clean lines. After loosing two of those knives, I went on a quest for a different knife, and ended up with a Spyderco Native III. While I first found the Spyderhole to be somewhat awkward, after a week, I realized that it was better than the AO of the Kershaw. I had always been a fan of thumb studs and AO, who was skeptical of the opening holes until I tried the Spyderhole. After using the AO for three years, I was sold on the Spyderhole in less than a week of use. It is MHO that the Spyderhole is just as fast (if not faster) than the AO, yet more reliable.

The Speedsafe mechanism does have the “safe” aspect, but beyond that I really think that it’s mainly a “cool factor”, and that’s what attracts most of the buyers. Nothing is faster than the Wave, but the AO’s are definitely sexier. The Wave just works better, and yes, AO does take a little getting used to also. Put it in a NKP’s hands, and they’ll have to figure it out before they run it well.

Another thing about the AO is that, it is just one more thing for Mr. Murphy to mess with. While I carry knives for utility, and not SD, the fact remains that there is always the possibility that they could be employed in a emergency situation. The Spyderhole is more efficient, with less room for failure.

Not only is the Spyderhole a more efficient means of opening, but it also offers more options of opening than the others. Beyond the traditional “flick”(which I try to avoid practicing) and the simple thumb open, there is also the Spyderdrop, and the hole also makes two-handed opening more effective by providing a more solid purchase for the off hand. IMHO, other than “cool factor”, there really isn’t any advantage to the AO over the Spyderhole that I can see (and I am a converted AO/Kershaw fan).

There are actually some people who prefer Spyderco because of the Spyderhole, and even some who like Spyderco because the don’t care for the AO.

All the above statements are my personal opinion. That doesn’t mean that the Spyderhole is superior to the AO, it just means that the Spyderhole is superior to the AO in my case. There are a lot of people who like the AO, just as there are many who prefer the Spyderhole. In the end, you pick the equipment that is best for you and go with it.

I wouldn’t be surprise if Spyderco someday decides to produce an AO. They’ve always been a manufacture that tries to cater to the market’s needs, and AO are quite popular, as well as an attraction to first-time buyers. I personally don’t think the Spyderhole is appropriate for AO, and think a flipper would be required for such a design endeavor.
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i agree, too an extent.

for me it depends on the size of the knife. like the Manix for example. i hate the spydiehole on that knife. though it opens super smooth reguardless, i find it hard to use. i would rather have AO on a large knife than it being manual (or without the flipper AO or no AO).

if i read right, the Manix is gone now correct? My point however, is that the Manix is a perfect fit, at least for me, for a AO feature. Or a large Spydie like it.

just my two cents of course. i do think its cool how Sal would want to use speedsafe.
 
The only AO i've handled didnt open half way. Nice feature. I think you have me confused with someone else on the "flipper" issue.
 
I don't believe I confused you with anyone, which is why I divided the comments into 2 sections: the ones directed towards you I put after your quoted words; the comments directed towards J.B were put after his quoted words.
Apologies for any confusion as to what comments were directed to which specific person, I thought the way I placed it would have been clear enough. I don't post very often, which is evident by my post count, so if there is a clearer method or one that is considered commonplace on these forums, please let me know.

Thanks,

Rik
 
Killdozer said:
I don't think AO are a fad. If anything 'waved' knives are going to be much more of a fad/gimmick than the AO will ever be. The sheer number of AO knives being made right now is very impressive. I think the only thing that will stop it's growth is legislation, legislation I hope never comes. .

-Mat
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Personally, I prefer the hole to flippers, AO or not. I have some Kershaws that are fine knives, the EnerG being one of my most often carried knives, but I would of preferred a small thumbstud or hole to the flipper, neat as this particular flipper is. I also tend to not carry AO's or flipper only knives to work because I'm wary of the reaction they might draw. I think one handed operation is good enough for myself. I'm content with the Spyder Hole or a well-designed thumbstud. I'll carry an AO or flipper only knife but its not my prefernce.
 
I love my Camillus Heat, and IF (BIG IF) an AO was to be made, it is my tiny opinion that the D. Ralph design is much beefier than the Kershaw. It is I believe, a touch wider, which does add some bulk, but overall, the use of the long leaf type spring seems both simpler, and stronger than the smaller coil spring used by Kershaw. Just my .02, and my other .02 is for spydies to stay conventional.
 
I do not care about AO at all, Spyderhole is absolutely sufficient for me. I used to have couple of Kershaws with AO, not feel that I need it, simple is better, more reliable.
 
sixfoot7 said:
Not that I would ever baton with a folder, that"s what fixed blades are for IMO, but if you needed to, you could do so with any folder from Kershaw, including these:





These were just a few of my AO's that I had handy. As you can see, neither all the way open or closed. If necessary, I can take a few pics with them 2/3 or 9/10ths open or whatever. I have both AO and non-AO knives, bought them for functionality, looks, and sometimes price, all from my point of view. I see the AO as an added bonus, and would neither make or break my decision to purchase a knife if it did or did not have it.



In the picture above, only 3 of the six knives are liner locks. One is a stud lock, 2 are frame locks (one is even a titanium framelock). Still think your options are narrow? :)
I disagree with your flipper opinion also. In fact, I think it is best without an AO to complement it. Check out a Lahar or a Junkyard Dog II. Very easy to open with just the flipper.

I also love the Spydercos I own as well, my current favourites right now being my Millie in BG-42 and my Mini Manix. Both well designed in their own right.

Rik
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Rik, Frame Locks and Liner Locks are so similar to me, that I havn´t written "liner/frame lock". Put a scale on a Frame Lock and you have a Liner Lock.

The Stud Lock seems to be patented for Kershaw. I assume Sal meant Kershaw licensed Spyderco the SpeedSafe. I don´t think they want to license their Stud Lock too or Spyderco wants to make it.

Frankly speaking, I like it simple. With fewer moving parts less can go wrong.

Besides, there is a big difference between you and me. You know Kershaw knives first hand and it seems you´re an expert regarding them. I have not one Kershaw knife yet and thus I have only theoretical knowledge about them. It´s not because I thought or think they aren´t good, it just hasn´t happened yet.

I once nearly bought a Boa but then it was really pain for me to reprofile a S60V blade from Boker and I decided to stay away from the Boa with S60V. Meanwhile I think S60V is a darn good steel, only hard to reprofile.

JB
 
sixfoot7 said:
I don't believe I confused you with anyone, which is why I divided the comments into 2 sections: the ones directed towards you I put after your quoted words; the comments directed towards J.B were put after his quoted words.
Apologies for any confusion as to what comments were directed to which specific person, I thought the way I placed it would have been clear enough. I don't post very often, which is evident by my post count, so if there is a clearer method or one that is considered commonplace on these forums, please let me know.

Thanks,

Rik
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I probably just read through it to fast. no worries man, its all good.
 
Sal's comments in this thread make me glad to be a Spyderco user.

As a matter of personal preference, I do not enjoy assisted opening, and I like my Spydercos just the way they are.

Kershaw seems to be king of A/O and that is cool. Different strokes for different folks.
 
nphelps4130 said:
Sal's comments in this thread make me glad to be a Spyderco user.

As a matter of personal preference, I do not enjoy assisted opening, and I like my Spydercos just the way they are.

Kershaw seems to be king of A/O and that is cool. Different strokes for different folks.
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way to put it. Would like to see what Kershaw and Spyderco could come up with together (that isnt the Spyker) and is AO.

Something like that possibly in the works? Thomas? Sal?
 
I prefer my folders without a lot of extra stuff. An AO is cool for the wow factor- and I love a gadget as much as any guy- but it's just one more thing w/ the potential to break & I don't need the headache of something breaking. If it can break- I WILL find a way to break it.
 
This thread is exactly why there's more than one flavor of ice cream...each has their own personal preference. I own Bucks, A SOG or two (their Seal Pup and Seal Pup Elite are great, but I'm not a big fan of their SAT folders), a few Spydies, a few Chris Reeves, and a Swamp Rat or two. But I am a fan of the AO's that Kershaw is putting out. Not necessarily better than any of the other knives I mentioned (but as we all know, some actually are better than others), just different.

Sal said it best when he replied to Thomas' post: "We've always considered the AO's to be Kershaw's thing. We did our own thing. That's why if we decide to make an AO, we'll use Ken Onion's mechanism and pay the royalty to Kershaw.

sal"

Everyone's got their own thing, and to me, it just makes for more great knives to choose from.

Cheers!
SPX
 
I can respect Spyderco does its thing and A/O is not it, at least not now, it's good they want to make good knives first and follow trends second (if at all). Still, I have some A/O's and like them, I have 2 Spydercos (waved Delica and Endura) and really like them. An A/O Spyderco would be awesome, whether they license from Kershaw or better yet, come up with some completely different idea no one has thought of yet.
 
J.B said:
Rik, Frame Locks and Liner Locks are so similar to me, that I havn´t written "liner/frame lock". Put a scale on a Frame Lock and you have a Liner Lock. JB
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Actually, I was under the impression that putting scales on a frame lock was called "a frame lock with scales". I could be wrong, I often am. But when I look at my Kershaw Groove, i see a frame lock with scales.
There are many threads on these forums discussing frame vs. liner vs. back vs. whatever type locks and the merits and drawbacks of each, so I see a distinct difference between the two.
J.B said:
Frankly speaking, I like it simple. With fewer moving parts less can go wrong.JB
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I absolutely agree with you. If one needs a knife they are going to use with as close to a 100% chance of nothing failing, a quality full tang fixed blade is the way to go.

J.B said:
Besides, there is a big difference between you and me. You know Kershaw knives first hand and it seems you´re an expert regarding them. I have not one Kershaw knife yet and thus I have only theoretical knowledge about them. It´s not because I thought or think they aren´t good, it just hasn´t happened yet.
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I disagree, we both share a keen interest in knives, and that's why we're here :) So we don't differ very much at all.
I definitely know Kershaw knives first hand, as well as Spydercos. I'm nowhere near an expert in them, I personally would give those titles first to people such as Thomas W, Tim Galyean, 2Brothers, Kershawguy, offsetlover, etc. who all have literally thousands of posts here and/or directly involved with Kershaw. But I appreciate the compliment. (can't wait to see what they have to say about little old me being an expert though).
When you get a chance, take a look at some Kershaws, both AO and non-AO.
I do enjoy reading other people's posts and points of view, and discussing them in a totally non-hostile way. That's how discussions work, and this one so far has been fun.

Rik
 
Rugger said:
I prefer my folders without a lot of extra stuff. An AO is cool for the wow factor- and I love a gadget as much as any guy- but it's just one more thing w/ the potential to break & I don't need the headache of something breaking. If it can break- I WILL find a way to break it.
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I respect your preference, Rugger, but one man's gadget is another man's convenience. That's why it's great to live in a world where different things work for different people. It's what defines us.
But I really replied only to make this list:

LIST OF THINGS TO NEVER LEND RUGGER

-Anything not made of at least 2" thick hardened steel or reinforced bombproof concrete.
:D:D
 
I don't like the way AOs sound. It's too loud. I prefer to open my knife silently, not have people look over and say "Is that a switchblade?".
 
beckerhead said:
I love my Camillus Heat, and IF (BIG IF) an AO was to be made, it is my tiny opinion that the D. Ralph design is much beefier than the Kershaw. It is I believe, a touch wider, which does add some bulk, but overall, the use of the long leaf type spring seems both simpler, and stronger than the smaller coil spring used by Kershaw. Just my .02, and my other .02 is for spydies to stay conventional.
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What models?

mike
 
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