Aus8 and 8cr13mov: Good, Bad, or Exceptional?

B

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I wanted to submit this thread because on the forums there are a lot of strong steel opinions. Some self-proclaimed "steel snobs," prefer not to use anything under s30v while there's a large group who love the mora's, opinels, and SAK's. Now most of the modern or tactical knives are not going to be found with a carbon steel on them, for the most party they'll be aus8 or 8cr13mov, and they'll be $20 to $40. Knives that fall into this category include:
Spyderco Tenacious, resilience, etc
Rtak III
Esee Zancudo
All cold steel folders minus the san mai's
Pretty much all Kershaw's under $40 including the cryo

These knives will almost always (can't think of an exception but I'm sure one exists) be produced overseas in in Asian country (Taiwan, China, etc. )
So here's my .02. These are the knives that most folks consider beaters, throw aways, and hard use (at least they'll break them to find out if they're hard use or not). When they dull they re-sharpen easily and when they break or are lost they are replaced. They can take a razor edge but may lose it pretty quickly. All that in mind I view these knives as exceptional. They represent knives that get used and represent some of the high end features of expensive knives minus the price point. I have spent a looong time sharpening vg10 steel knives with rc62 by hand and it stopped being fun after awhile.

So I'm interested in the thoughts of the community. Do you feel these knives are good, bad, exception, trash and why? I do not want this to turn into cheap steel fan vs. expensive steel fan bashing thread. I am legitimately interested in the opinions of others and if there is someone who wouldn't touch these knives with a 10 foot pole I'd love to here the logic behind it for my own development, not to tell them or other community members they are wrong.
 
I have had good experiences with both. Exactly like you mentioned above, they make great beaters and take a great edge with some sharpening love. They also hold and edge decently. I wouldn't go as far as exceptional and they are definitely not bad steels.

For me in my experience with knife steels, I find the "problem" (edge retention) starts with 7cr13mov and lower ( also no name stainless or "surgical" stamped). After a few cardboard boxes they turn into butter knives.
 
aus8 "They can take a razor edge but may lose it pretty quickly."

You said it. Decent steel, but I'd gladly pay extra for AUS10.

Having a mediocre steel wouldn't stop me from buying a knife as long as I liked the overall design and other features, and as long as it was priced accordingly. :thumbup:
 
I have a Cold Steel Tuff Lite, and have had no issues with the steel. It dulls noticeably faster than, say, 154CM, but it was also only 20 bucks.

When treated properly and priced well ( I'm looking at you two, Al Mar and CRKT), those steels are absolutely fine. FWIW, I have found 8Cr to hold an edge better but chip easier, and AUS8 doesn't seem to chip and instead rolls.

They are very similar steels in price and composition. I'd say they are leaps and bounds better that the mystery stainless you find in most knives in that price range. Those are also the lowest grade steels I'll even consider. I really do prefer 154cm and up, and really don't carry or have any interest in any knives with those steels other than the upcoming Kershaws that have KVT. I'm a sucker for a good flipper...
 
Ive had mixed results with aus8. My only expirience with it is with cold steels. It keeps a great edge on my spartan and double agent II but has no edge retention on my counter point ii.
 
davek14 said:
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I've heard AUS8 called the carbon steel of stainless.
Click to expand...

Not really sure how true that is. AEBL is supposedly in terms of performance to O1 and such, as is AUS-6.

As with all of these knives, it really depends on heat treat. Cheap knives typically get cheap HT, but Spyderco, Al Mar, and Benchmade are all exceptions. I think Benchmade ran AUS-8 at 59 hrc, Spyderco's 8cr has been found to be around 60 if I remember right.
 
I have an early CS Master Hunter and the AUS-8 was excellent. There seems to have been problems with some of the newer ones [made in China ?]
 
MAKnifenut said:
Ive had mixed results with aus8. My only expirience with it is with cold steels. It keeps a great edge on my spartan and double agent II but has no edge retention on my counter point ii.
Click to expand...

That's more edge geometry than anything. I experienced the same thing with my Counter Point II years ago and chalked it up to the steel. Then, months and a lot of knives and research later, I looked at it and saw that it was super thick behind the edge and was not really designed to be a cutting tool at all. It really is just a folding stabbing weapon.
 
My Ontario RAT-1 is AUS 8. I like it. Razor sharp out of the box, and it seems to be the easiest blade I own to put an edge on/ maintain. I do, however, have several lower quality steel blades (read- Gerber.... LMF-2, Torch 2, etc). I had another AUS-8 blade, and was told it was good- it is, in my very humble, amateur opinion...
 
The OP mentioned an RTAC-III. Is there such a thing? I thought he might have meant an RTAC-II but those were made of 1095 and are now made of 5160.
 
Properly heat treated AUS8 is a pretty tough steel. It won't keep a razor edge as well as higher end steels, but in my experience is very good at holding a working edge through heavy duty tasks. Again, that is if done right.

8CR13MOV is okay, but the examples I've had were obviously over hardened. Sanrenmu (and Spyderco by default) and KAI seem to like putting the Rockwell hardness on the high end, and it makes 8CR chippy and a little harder to sharpen than AUS8. Mine hold a good razor edge on light tasks, but anything heavy just destroys them.

I am however impressed with Ganzo's (I know, I know) 440C (9CR).

I'd take properly done AUS8 any day of the week over 8CR for a knife that will see heavier cutting. At the end of the day it really depends on what you want the steel to do. They may not be that different in composition by numbers, but just a tiny bit can make a big difference in performance, especially when one is commonly a few points harder than the other.
 
In the end. It still comes down to the proper temper.

Beside I like shapening my knives.
When I use it during the day, that evening
they get Stropped or ran on the Sharpmaker.


My Tenacious was meh on the crooked grind.
Then I reprofiled it, sanded off the CHINA now I love it.
Its still a Commie at hart that cuts just as well as any other knife I own.
 
bugout bill said:
not really sure how true that is. Aebl is supposedly in terms of performance to o1 and such, as is aus-6.

As with all of these knives, it really depends on heat treat. Cheap knives typically get cheap ht, but spyderco, al mar, and benchmade are all exceptions. I think benchmade ran aus-8 at 59 hrc, spyderco's 8cr has been found to be around 60 if i remember right.
Click to expand...

aebl?
 
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