BAD NEWS--Kesar YCS

firkin

firkin

Joined
Jan 26, 2002
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Since I may have the first of these beasts--Plain Kesar-made YCS ordered during the Pala sale and received the end of Feb., and which looks just like these recent fancy ones, I've been interested in the recent reports and had to go out and chop some more.

You guessed it from the subject title....

After several delightful strokes into a clear section of a partially dried loquat log, using mostly forearm strokes--no big windup--something felt or sounded funny. Don't know which. Anyway, about 5" from the tip, there was a single large deformation in the edge. I immediately understood the lasagna noodle description. The deformation was almost 1/4" wide,extending inward from the edge about 3/16". Maximum displacement from the rest of the edge was close to 3/32". I looked at this in shock, and wondered what to do. I couldn't believe the metal hadn't torn. I held the bevel flat against the sawn-off end of the log and using the sawn end of a 3" diameter, 14" length of the same wood as a hammer disturbingly easily worked the metal back to 80% original in a few not particularly hard whacks. A couple light blows from a hammer, again using the wood as an anvil, took it further, but I went back to the little log as it didn't leave marks. Not quite in line yet, but that seemed too easy. The log is lying on the ground, so my "anvil face" is vertical, darned awkward placement, so I really didn't apply any real force. I'm sure I could easily finish the job just using the wood especially if I dig under the brush pile and use the stump so I can hammer vertically. This is hard wood, but I've chopped on it with all my khuks after sharpening them, including the Kesar YCS. Didn't chop a lot with the YCS though, I was seduced by the polish, and have also been oiling the handle. I grabbed my UBE (Bura) and really got going on the log in the same spot. No problem.

A new Nicholson single cut "Black Diamond" file does sound a little higher pitched when used at the sweet spot, but seems to get a good bite everywhere on the blade. I also used the file on my AK, my inexperienced senses don't detect any large difference in the files action on the two blades. I think there was less grab in the sweet spot of the AK. I know it was more difficult to sharpen the AK there. The AK was also made by Kesar, but I've used it to chop a bunch of 3" diameter knots off of the same log with no problems. I haven't tried the file on the Bura which I've recently stropped, but my curiosity is building. Those who can confidently check the edge hardness may wish to do so before using a Kesar YCS.

My opinion on the Kesar YCS has changed to khuk looks very pretty, but not very useful. Dunno if initial hardening or overgrinding to get thin is the root cause, but something seems awry. Too bad, it felt really nice to use, too. But at least this didn't happen when I counted on it, or was bragging about it!

Comments???
 
I guess that the recent report you referred to is mine. That sounds like a similar failure to the one mine has, pretty near the same actually. Dissapointing to be sure, but HI's legendary customer service has saved the day, for me at least. I'm glad to hear that I'm not the only one, I was a little worried that it may have been something I did. Although that does put a crimp in the theory that my superhuman strength was to blame. ;) Oh well, you win some, you lose some.
 
I guess that the recent report you referred to is mine.
Click to expand...

Yes Roadrunner, that's right.

If I'd been really trying to chop down a standing tree with any efficiency, I think I would have really rippled the edge. I wasn't consciously applying any torque, the wood is hard enough that the blade didn't penetrate enough to stick, and the chips cleared fine. One side of the bevel is slightly convex, the other is slightly concave. I wonder if it just got hot from late grinding used instead of early hammering. A real bummer, after lots of work on the handles. The shape and balance is wonderful, it chopped this log better than any of the other khuks I have.
 
I'm think Kesar strayed too far from his standard stuff with this YCS. As I've often said, he does great work on standard stuff but put him on some special project and he can lose it.

I've ordered more YCSs but have asked in no uncertain terms that Sanu make them.

This kind of stuff drives me nuts. Pala should know better when handing out assignments and I fear that he is not handing out the assignments at all at present -- he is fixated on saving BirGorkha and getting the new shop rather than daily activity. Probably Pradeep is handing out assignments (Gelbu is in Delhi for a couple or three weeks) and he doesn't understand the strength and weaknesses of the various kamis.

I guess we can blame it all on the Maoists.

At any rate I'll make things right one way or the other.
 
Thanks, Uncle Bill,

I'd like to send you the knife and get your evaluation. I need to know whether it was me or the khuk. I really can't be buying any tools that can't do what they're supposed to. I'll even include a chunk of loquat wood if you like.

A true shame. I really wanted the edge to be OK, since I've grown kinda attached to the thing, even the sorta funky small tools with my own not quite matching fills and Himalayan epoxy fills. So I had to go check right away. But a Yvsa has said, "Pretty is as pretty does".

I did break down and take a file to my Sirupati and UBE (both by Bura) and they seemed harder along the entire blade length. That might be partly me, since I hated to ding up the polished edge. For the file test, do you just lightly pass the file over the edge, and see if any bite occurs, or do you really have a go at it like you were sharpening the edge with the file?
 
Send it back and we'll sell it off as a project knife for $40 bucks if anybody wants to tackle a rehardening.

I use what I suppose would be medium pressure when running the file test. If the file bites where it shouldn't I recheck using more pressure. In the belly area of the blade you should have a very tough time removing metal with the file if it's hardened properly.
 
Send it back and we'll sell it off as a project knife for $40 bucks if anybody wants to tackle a rehardening.
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OK, I'll try to get it out tomorrow, and indicate where I pounded the edge back in line (almost).

I take it you don't NEED a piece of loquat wood?:)

Please let me me know what you find, I need to figure out this file test.

Hopefully someone can find a use for the thing, but a rehardening is far beyond me or anybody I know.
 
We have a few here who can reharden blades if they have the time and inclination. A dozen years ago when we were taking whatever we could find from various village kamis we'd get in some clunkers from time to time that were too soft and I used to reharden these myself. But we were not selling many, I had a lot more time available for projects, had use of a well equipped shop and bypass surgery was in the future ten years.

Today I don't even have time to check the blades as I should and that's the reason these knives got into the field in the first place. With the diminished Nepali shipping staff I'm overloaded.
 
Uncle, your'e doing one heck of a job, even with the overloading. Seven days a week too. Very, very few set such a high product standard and maintain it with service such as yours. I'm quite sorry I didn't find the problem when I first got the knife in, might have saved you some additional troubles.
I followed your description of the file test, and I can see what you describe. I found the same thing when I tried to sharpen a couple of khuks using emory paper wrapped around a dowel, but the file is more obvious and quicker. Thanks again.
 
A new Nicholson single cut "Black Diamond" file does sound a little higher pitched when used at the sweet spot, but seems to get a good bite everywhere on the blade
Click to expand...

This is how my file acted on the Kesar Kobra that I sent back due to "lasagna noodle" deformation on the blade. I too was able to reform the edge with hardly any force (I think I could have done it with a piece of wood).

I'll let Uncle say for sure, but my hunch is that the Kamis are trying like mad to keep up with Pala's demand for production and hardening is suffering now and then. Luckily for us HI will fix the problem and we get new (harder) khukuris:)
 
I think the kamis and everybody involed with BirGorkha (except me) are all getting desperate to vacate the present premises for higher -- and safer -- ground. I sent a nasty email this AM addressed to all BirGorkha personnel telling them if they didn't start doing better they wouldn't have to worry about the new factory because we would be out of business.
 
Uncle Bill-
If there is a problem with the blade, I'll buy it as a project knife. Sounds like a challenge!
Firkin, when I use a file to test hardness, I use very light pressure. You can feel differences in parts of the edge as you stroke it, and if you have a good knife to use as a comparison, can soon judge whether your test edge is harder, softer, or about the same. Try a file on a few good knives and you'll quickly develop a feel for it.
 
Email me, Art. Sounds like I may have more than one.

If you know how to harden a blade it's an easy fix and a fairly quick one. The knife is very well made, looks beautiful, but the edge is too soft.
 
Thanks for the help Art, I'm starting to to get the feel, I think. I was initially a little reluctant to run the file over the edges that I've stropped from 320 or 600 grit down to Veritas compound , but I now realize that the learning will be worth it. Might convince me to concoct something better than emory paper laid over a mouspad on the kitchen counter to sharpen the things anyway.:)

I wish I had the resources material and human to try and fix the thing myself; I think some re-profiling to take the edge back slightly might be in order also, so there's not so much really thin edge. After hardening you'll have a real beauty that it now looks like will be darn rare.
 
Firkin,
When using the file lightly, you'll do no more than put some small scratches on the bevel near the edge and these will come out easily with the paper on a mousepad. Actually, for something shaped like a khukuri you can't get much better tools than the paper on a pad or wrapped around a stick. The shank of a good screwdriver makes a fine edge burnisher and when wrapped with different grits of wet or dry paper is a great sharpener.
 
Art,

The sandpaper methods have worked pretty well for me so far. I guess sometimes the cheap makeshift solution is as good as any other. At some point I want to mount some good leather on wood blocks, but haven't got around to it yet. It would be nice to be able to get both hands on the blade instead of holding the lash-up on the counter with one hand.
 
Stay tuned. I got email from Art and I think he's going to be able to save all these soft edges. I'm sending him a test case today.
 
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