battle of the blades

[TPVT]

so, it's been raining off and on for a few days here. not today. beautiful. took some porch time.

first, a goofy little "flesh" test. this was last night....just cutting up some pork for future use. not much to report here. they were all sharp, so they all cut. the oh-so-obvious props go to the gaucho. it was the only one i ended up wanting to use for the boning. this gaucho is definitely thin at the tip. it is obviously not meant to be a boning knife per se (i don't think), but if i am holding the tip, i can move the blade (stiff). really was a pleasure for this task. the rest were rather equal.

now back to the beautiful evening.

tonight i chose the two kepharts to fiddle around with my version of a try stick (abbreviated). i typically do this with any new knife just to get a feel for it. so, it was funny....i placed the stick on the ground (for the "stab" cuts). the vibrations called up some worms. 4-5 came up while i was performing this task. i will remember this.

so, i did make sure that the knives were equally sharp (as best i could do). i made sure that each blade could "curve-cut" paper.

observations: for this task, i would have preferred a rounded spine and a rounded butt. with that said, both knives performed admirably.

and i have to fess up....after saying i was no metal guy... i am sold on the 80CRV2. no idea why, but it sure seemed that knife cut better. i checked the grind height and the angles and could not notice a difference. i expect it has nothing to do with the steel type. perhaps the 80CRV2 version was slightly sharper? who knows, but i felt it was worth mentioning. now, what really sold me was the post-test. i went back to the paper after the try sticks and the 80CRV2 version still sliced through, including curve cuts. now, it did drag a bit more (not clean like before), but it cut. the A2, not so much. a noticeable difference.

 

[TPVT]

btw...speaking of...it seems to me i remember seeing a few posts mentioning that it was hard to sharpen 80CRV2. though, i just searched and i cannot seem to find what i remember reading. so, maybe i am making that up?

anyways, if that is a concern, it shouldn't be. i generally keep my knife edges "fresh". i.e. i don't really let them get too dull. my normal routine is steel, ceramic rod (as necessary), loaded strop (black, green), leather belt. this worked just fine on the 80CRV2.

 

[Rufus Magnus]

Very interesting comment about 80CRV2 ... Wondering how the A2 version and 80CRV2 version will compare if and when you will run the cardboard test ...? Very nicely done test

 

[TPVT]

Very interesting comment about 80CRV2 ... Wondering how the A2 version and 80CRV2 version will compare if and when you will run the cardboard test ...? Very nicely done test

thanks rufus. i expect i already know the answer (per above), but i do plan to do this. i am curious myself.

i just went to the dump! need some cardboard.

 

[Fiddleback]

This thread is lots of fun. Great job. I don't think the 80CRV2 gets sharper, per se. It is a bit tougher though. The new 8670 we got in is a best of both worlds steel. Toughness like the 80CRV2 but more stain resistant like the A2.

(Plus, the one thing I don't like about using 80CRV2 is how hot the sparks are. I mean they are hot as hell. I burn my finger 10x more than A2 using it!)

 

[cbach8tw]

Very interesting, keep it coming. Appreciate your thoughts.

 

[TPVT]

Very interesting, keep it coming. Appreciate your thoughts.

This thread is lots of fun. Great job. I don't think the 80CRV2 gets sharper, per se. It is a bit tougher though. The new 8670 we got in is a best of both worlds steel. Toughness like the 80CRV2 but more stain resistant like the A2.

(Plus, the one thing I don't like about using 80CRV2 is how hot the sparks are. I mean they are hot as hell. I burn my finger 10x more than A2 using it!)

thanks guys. i hope to take a look at a couple others tonight.

 

[TPVT]

alright, back at it. tonight, is the bushfinger and the ke bushie. i used the puukko to cut down the sapling (fresh maple, if anyone is interested). yesterday, i used one of the "test" knives to cut down the sapling, which probably is not right.

observations: so, if i end up keeping whichever knife, i will round the spine (maybe leave a little section square). a note about that... so, when i go out into the woods, yes, i will carry a ferro rod. but it is my 3rd option. i carry a bic, matches and a ferro rod. so, if i really need to use my rod to start a fire, something has gone wrong. at that point, i would use my edge to start a fire if i had to. anyways, my point is, i don't think i've ever needed my knife's spine to really start a fire. so....i will save my thumb!

now, on to the task at hand. i actually found i preferred the bushfinger for this task. there is something about the grind perhaps, or the profile (i don't really know), that really just lets this knife cut. i will say i preferred the ke bushie (and its point) for the "drilling" task. and it actually was really clean on stripping bark. but, if i had to choose (which is what i am trying to do ), then my nod would go to the BF.

and so, is it time to fess up? reading between the lines of other posts, i admit that i wanted to like the bolstered kephart the best. it's the one i expected to like best. and, i bought the new one because, dang... that's hawt!

but, since i will most likely also be using this knife during hunting season, the bushfinger may sneak in as the dark horse. time will tell. hmmm.

anyway, this is why this exercise is important to me (usage). sometimes, i am surprised. ok, ok...i'm often surprised.

 

[TPVT]

oh yeah, so both knives did cut paper (after the first try or two) following the test. again, a bit grabby, but they still cut. in fact, the ke bushie cut paper better. that surprised me (see!?), because i felt it was not cutting as well toward the end of the test. i am not sure what it all means... just documenting.

 

[TPVT]

oh, and another thing!...

you get the gist of what i am doing here. i don't know if you could say that i am "testing" the knives. i am just performing certain knife tasks to get familiar with each knife and hopefully that experience will allow me to make an educated opinion of which knife might serve me best in what i use a knife for.

with all that said, i only know what i know (if you know what i mean). but, this is a forum. so let's open up this discussion. here's the scenario... you get a new knife, and same thing... you want to get familiar with the knife (get comfortable with it). what are some of the things you might do??!

 

[cbach8tw]

I think a good point of this "testing" is to figure out which works best for you and how you can be become familiar with the knife.

 

[Warrior108]

Ok, so Phillip and Andy are going to do head-slaps and others might make fun of me but .... After 4 years of giving the Forge grief that they need to do more thin blades, I finally started using Andy's knives as intended and found out that 3/32 may not be all that comfy when it comes to removing pieces of wood. That said, my defense is that Fiddlebacks are F'n awesome works of art no matter their configuration, so you can't blame me for liking them and using bushcrafting knives for well, not bushcrafting. My area of use was pretty much solely focused on light use EDC and food so my "battle of the blades test" would be to open that package and see how well it sliced an apple vs wedged/split it open.

I've been messing around for a while now and prefer 1/8" rather than 3/32" when it comes to messing with sticks. And when I look around at my (probably close to 90-100) Fiddleback family collection, I seem to be lacking 5/32" blades and Scandi blades in either 1/8" or 5/32". Hence, my recent pestering of Andy and his Scandi jig.

I have been sitting back and watching this thread but, to put this thread in context, the battle would seem to depend on what you're using the knife for. I initially guessed that the Kephart would win over the Bushfinger but I think that's because the Bushfinger I used in my testing didn't do as well as the Kephart either because a) the Kephart is 5/32" (easier on the thumb push) and the Bushfinger is 1/8" or b) it "feels" like the thickness behind the edge on the Bushfinger is a tad thicker and it seems like it ought to perform differently. I'm thinking an actual sharpening beyond my standard stropping is in order.


This rambling brings up a few questions for TPVT or others ...

Do you think your findings would differ if you sat down and sharpened them to ensure the playing field was leveled first? (or maybe you did that and I missed it)

Do you think you would have different results if you did testing of the same model but with different blade configurations (3/32 vs 1/8 vs 5/32, and toss convex vs scandi in there)? With whittling on sticks, you end up with a thumb or thumbs on the spine quite a bit so 3/32" ends up not being optimal there, but do you have a preference between 1/8" vs 5/32"?

Since the handles can vary quite a bit even within the same model, have you found that you prefer a super thin handle, a moderate/average handle or a broomstick/round-ish handle? A lot of this is personal preference, hand size and such so the handle shape is definitely a personal preference deal. For EDC, I prefer a thin handle and at the end of the day, for bushcrafty stuff, a medium/normal handle is my preference, and I just can't seem to like fat/round handles even though I wear 2XL gloves.

 

[TPVT]

Ok, so Phillip and Andy are going to do head-slaps and others might make fun of me but .... After 4 years of giving the Forge grief that they need to do more thin blades, I finally started using Andy's knives as intended and found out that 3/32 may not be all that comfy when it comes to removing pieces of wood. That said, my defense is that Fiddlebacks are F'n awesome works of art no matter their configuration, so you can't blame me for liking them and using bushcrafting knives for well, not bushcrafting. My area of use was pretty much solely focused on light use EDC and food so my "battle of the blades test" would be to open that package and see how well it sliced an apple vs wedged/split it open.

I've been messing around for a while now and prefer 1/8" rather than 3/32" when it comes to messing with sticks. And when I look around at my (probably close to 90-100) Fiddleback family collection, I seem to be lacking 5/32" blades and Scandi blades in either 1/8" or 5/32". Hence, my recent pestering of Andy and his Scandi jig.

I have been sitting back and watching this thread but, to put this thread in context, the battle would seem to depend on what you're using the knife for. I initially guessed that the Kephart would win over the Bushfinger but I think that's because the Bushfinger I used in my testing didn't do as well as the Kephart either because a) the Kephart is 5/32" (easier on the thumb push) and the Bushfinger is 1/8" or b) it "feels" like the thickness behind the edge on the Bushfinger is a tad thicker and it seems like it ought to perform differently. I'm thinking an actual sharpening beyond my standard stropping is in order.


This rambling brings up a few questions for TPVT or others ...

Do you think your findings would differ if you sat down and sharpened them to ensure the playing field was leveled first? (or maybe you did that and I missed it)

Do you think you would have different results if you did testing of the same model but with different blade configurations (3/32 vs 1/8 vs 5/32, and toss convex vs scandi in there)? With whittling on sticks, you end up with a thumb or thumbs on the spine quite a bit so 3/32" ends up not being optimal there, but do you have a preference between 1/8" vs 5/32"?

Since the handles can vary quite a bit even within the same model, have you found that you prefer a super thin handle, a moderate/average handle or a broomstick/round-ish handle? A lot of this is personal preference, hand size and such so the handle shape is definitely a personal preference deal. For EDC, I prefer a thin handle and at the end of the day, for bushcrafty stuff, a medium/normal handle is my preference, and I just can't seem to like fat/round handles even though I wear 2XL gloves.

thanks for checking in warrior.

to answer your question about this: "Do you think your findings would differ if you sat down and sharpened them to ensure the playing field was leveled first? (or maybe you did that and I missed it)"

...yes, i had the same thoughts. i did address that in earlier posts. the first bout of tests surprised me that i preferred the BF to the kephart. so, it got me to wondering about sharpness as well. as i said in an earlier post, i made sure they were all sharp....just not comparatively so. so my next round of tests, i made sure that each knife could curve cut paper... just my arbitrary benchmark. then i compared sharpness after the test as well.

regarding knife steel, i guess i prefer 1/8", but it really depends on the grind and edge geometry more than the thickness to me. for example, a 5/32" with a high, thin grind to a tapered tip might slice better than a 1/8" in a scandi...that kind of thing. but yes, you make a good point. i would definitely expect the knives to perform differently with different grinds. all i have are the convex versions. i prefer that for all-around use. but, as you say, i am rather a sucker for a scandi-grind, as well. i would love to really do a sit-down compare on each model with different grinds, but ... well ... don't make me buy more knives!

going back to steel thickness, i am not against my buscrafting knife (and i use that term loosely, as it relates to my uses) being 3/32", but you make an interesting point on push-cuts. i never considered that. i still hadn't got around to doing the try stick with the gaucho. in fact, i was going to skip it, just because i think i have already decided against that one as an all-around use type knife. but, now i will go ahead and perform the test. i am curious.

thanks for the feedback.

 

[Fiddleback]

And all this struggling with 3/32" thick wide bladed knives...... Hmmmmm

 

[TPVT]

And all this struggling with 3/32" thick wide bladed knives...... Hmmmmm

i think this is a bit tongue in cheek, but care to elaborate?

 

[Warrior108]

And all this struggling with 3/32" thick wide bladed knives...... Hmmmmm

Struggling on your part? Or my part?

Look at it this way; I still have a sweet collection, most of them are for light EDC / food and now I need to buy more. No efforts have gone to waste here, trust me. (kidding of course but) Shoulda had a quarantine a long time ago so I'd have time on my hands before now.


PS Having also done a fair share of harassment in favor of tapered tangs, I must say that I still prefer a tapered tang when it comes to the feel of balance, no matter what the use.

 

[TPVT]

Struggling on your part? Or my part?

Look at it this way; I still have a sweet collection, most of them are for light EDC / food and now I need to buy more. No efforts have gone to waste here, trust me. (kidding of course but) Shoulda had a quarantine a long time ago so I'd have time on my hands before now.


PS Having also done a fair share of harassment in favor of tapered tangs, I must say that I still prefer a tapered tang when it comes to the feel of balance, no matter what the use.

ha. that’s where i was hung up... the word struggling. i will say this to help clarify some of my comments.

the reason i “decided against” the gaucho was handle related, not as much stock thickness related (more on that in a bit) in fact, i quite like a knife in 3/32”. i use my knife to “cut stuff”, so in general, i don’t need a thicker blade. when i answered 1/8” above, that was specific to what i’ve seen with these fiddleback knives. you brought it up warrior, i actually think andy really does a nice job with the taper. so much so that the 1/8” tapered knives are about perfect for me. back to the gaucho, with the taper, it really gets pretty thin at the tip, so i’d need to consider that. most 3/32” knives i have had are not tapered as nicely. i don’t have a 5/32”, but would love to try one.

back to the blade height discussion... i thought i preferred a low height blade. but, i actually find myself really liking the bushfinger. so go figure.

 

[VANCE]

Struggling on Andys part to do a light pressure convex on thin stock..

Wanna guess how many times i got chewed out for continuing to profile them and something went haywire?

 

[TPVT]

Struggling on Andys part to do a light pressure convex on thin stock..

Wanna guess how many times i got chewed out for continuing to profile them and something went haywire?

ha! i mean, sorry.

and thanks for the clarification.

 

[Warrior108]

Struggling on Andys part to do a light pressure convex on thin stock..

Wanna guess how many times i got chewed out for continuing to profile them and something went haywire?

You're THE MAN though

Pay no mind to Andy