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Now that I think about it, munk....I would've been pretty miffed myself. I don't blame you for being upset. I see in the post above I neglected to apologize to you as well. Sorry for the mishap.munk said:
Being edited by a Co Moderator
- Thread starter munk
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i got the hot tar, who's got the feathers?!?!?
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Bill asked me to go ahead and post the email I sent to him. Hopefully, it will be a good thing.
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Bill,
I do understand what you're talking about and appreciate your concern. It is my desire to do the best I can at keeping your forum alive and kicking at the top and I will do whatever that takes.
If I can, let me offer a few words of explanation....ones that hopefully will not sound defensive.
(this is best read at a slow.......calm.......pace, which is how I like to talk things over.)
*deep, soothing breath*
So far, no-one has complained to me personally because of my demeanor. Perhaps they are afraid to....I don't know...I hope not. Those who know me, know that I am a very easy-to-get-along-with person. I sincerely hope you feel that way about me too. If not, I have communicated the wrong impression and will apologize and re-evaluate.
After Rusty sent me his "back off" email....I went back through my posts (it's my nature to blame myself first) to see if there was anything I had said that offended him or anybody else. I honestly searched and scoured and the only thing I could find was that in one post I praised Rusty's efforts by saying he was a good "first mate". Perhaps he thought I was referring to him being "my first mate"...?.....what I meant was that he was your best first mate. I would never put myself ahead of him. I admire Rusty for having lots of good and interesting things to say and for being a straight-up guy.
When I accepted the moderator duty, for me, it was an opportunity to help out....fill a needed spot. Not to take command. I never gave that a second thought. I have kept that email you sent me with your directive and I feel I've stuck to it the best I can.
I wish I knew the circumstances of those who have complained about the way I've handled things. It's hard to change if you don't know what you're doing to push people's buttons.
When I first came on board and had to help solve a few difficulties....after the dust settled, I got a handful of emails from people who were grateful I had acted so quickly and firmly. They're tired of the graphic violence/porn...whatever. They wanted to stick to the basics - khukuris. I told them that Bill (you) wanted to keep a high level of free speech in the forum and that I would do my best to maintain dignity and common decency, but that I would not try to steer the forum discussion in any way. These people are not newbies....they are old-timers: ***, ***, ***, *** (who has stopped posting altogether) as well as new people (can't seem to remember everybody that emailed).
When Kendo came back and started a ruckus....my email was jammed immediately with requests that I ban him. I didn't want to do it. He did me a favor a few years back and I feel indebted to him - always will. Then, when he started insulting you, me and the rest of the forum - I got even more requests to ban him. Some saying they were offended/surprised that he was still around at all. There were other mods that insinuated that I wasn't doing my job because "x" number of days had passed with no response from me. I didn't feel I could just let it slide....maybe that was my mistake? I don't feel like it was hasty.....I certainly didn't just "buckle to pressure"....I did a lot of reading in the Back End before I asked to have him banned....takes a lot less than what he did to get banned (plus he'd been banned before). Perhaps I erred....and for that, I'm willing to take the blame. Rookie mistake.
I get at least 10-20+ emails a day from (forum) people asking me for advice on this, or that....or they have questions about khukuris....or they want me to post their pics...submit their special orders...you name it. I don't mind this - in fact, I kinda like it...being able to help people out. I'm sure you get many more emails than I do.....I'm sure you understand how much time and energy it takes at the keyboard to help keep the forum alive and the members fed. I do this freely - not expecting anything back from you. Fills a void in my "Do a good turn daily" motto.
I know I can do the job - how you want it done, and done well. I just need some guidance now and then. Hopefully the good outweighs whatever bad there may be....if it does not, then I'll gladly step down.
Next time I run into a situation that needs moderating, I will email you or Rusty for help resolving it first. If I have to act quickly, then hopefully we'll all understand.
Thanks for your kind words in your email and your trust in me.
Best wishes,
Dan
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As much as regret having to do it, I did have to edit a few more personal parts out of the email. I apologize if this upsets any one. I did the best I could.
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Bill,
I do understand what you're talking about and appreciate your concern. It is my desire to do the best I can at keeping your forum alive and kicking at the top and I will do whatever that takes.
If I can, let me offer a few words of explanation....ones that hopefully will not sound defensive.
(this is best read at a slow.......calm.......pace, which is how I like to talk things over.)
*deep, soothing breath*
So far, no-one has complained to me personally because of my demeanor. Perhaps they are afraid to....I don't know...I hope not. Those who know me, know that I am a very easy-to-get-along-with person. I sincerely hope you feel that way about me too. If not, I have communicated the wrong impression and will apologize and re-evaluate.
After Rusty sent me his "back off" email....I went back through my posts (it's my nature to blame myself first) to see if there was anything I had said that offended him or anybody else. I honestly searched and scoured and the only thing I could find was that in one post I praised Rusty's efforts by saying he was a good "first mate". Perhaps he thought I was referring to him being "my first mate"...?.....what I meant was that he was your best first mate. I would never put myself ahead of him. I admire Rusty for having lots of good and interesting things to say and for being a straight-up guy.
When I accepted the moderator duty, for me, it was an opportunity to help out....fill a needed spot. Not to take command. I never gave that a second thought. I have kept that email you sent me with your directive and I feel I've stuck to it the best I can.
I wish I knew the circumstances of those who have complained about the way I've handled things. It's hard to change if you don't know what you're doing to push people's buttons.
When I first came on board and had to help solve a few difficulties....after the dust settled, I got a handful of emails from people who were grateful I had acted so quickly and firmly. They're tired of the graphic violence/porn...whatever. They wanted to stick to the basics - khukuris. I told them that Bill (you) wanted to keep a high level of free speech in the forum and that I would do my best to maintain dignity and common decency, but that I would not try to steer the forum discussion in any way. These people are not newbies....they are old-timers: ***, ***, ***, *** (who has stopped posting altogether) as well as new people (can't seem to remember everybody that emailed).
When Kendo came back and started a ruckus....my email was jammed immediately with requests that I ban him. I didn't want to do it. He did me a favor a few years back and I feel indebted to him - always will. Then, when he started insulting you, me and the rest of the forum - I got even more requests to ban him. Some saying they were offended/surprised that he was still around at all. There were other mods that insinuated that I wasn't doing my job because "x" number of days had passed with no response from me. I didn't feel I could just let it slide....maybe that was my mistake? I don't feel like it was hasty.....I certainly didn't just "buckle to pressure"....I did a lot of reading in the Back End before I asked to have him banned....takes a lot less than what he did to get banned (plus he'd been banned before). Perhaps I erred....and for that, I'm willing to take the blame. Rookie mistake.
I get at least 10-20+ emails a day from (forum) people asking me for advice on this, or that....or they have questions about khukuris....or they want me to post their pics...submit their special orders...you name it. I don't mind this - in fact, I kinda like it...being able to help people out. I'm sure you get many more emails than I do.....I'm sure you understand how much time and energy it takes at the keyboard to help keep the forum alive and the members fed. I do this freely - not expecting anything back from you. Fills a void in my "Do a good turn daily" motto.
I know I can do the job - how you want it done, and done well. I just need some guidance now and then. Hopefully the good outweighs whatever bad there may be....if it does not, then I'll gladly step down.
Next time I run into a situation that needs moderating, I will email you or Rusty for help resolving it first. If I have to act quickly, then hopefully we'll all understand.
Thanks for your kind words in your email and your trust in me.
Best wishes,
Dan
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As much as regret having to do it, I did have to edit a few more personal parts out of the email. I apologize if this upsets any one. I did the best I could.
Did anyone notice- some were starting to wonder just how rank this munk character had been? (that's a joke, yvsa- not a slam) Because even I was wondering what I'd done. I'm not entirely kidding- I do dumb things and make mistakes. What did I do that PEN is not even Speaking to me?? And then when you were finally back on line- you answered every thread in the forum except this one!
Yeah. Weird.
Btw- I've noticed what I call a 'two year cycle' in the forum. People join and drift off. It's a two year enlistment.
I apologize to everyone for everything I've ever said. Every word I write usually has something wrong in it. I've tried to impart this knowledge to Danny but failed- because as usual, I said it wrong.
The whole thing is teaching me to be even more humble. And that's not a joke.
munk
Yeah. Weird.
Btw- I've noticed what I call a 'two year cycle' in the forum. People join and drift off. It's a two year enlistment.
I apologize to everyone for everything I've ever said. Every word I write usually has something wrong in it. I've tried to impart this knowledge to Danny but failed- because as usual, I said it wrong.
The whole thing is teaching me to be even more humble. And that's not a joke.
munk
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munk - you're welcome at my fire anytime.
Thanks for the email.
Thanks for the email.
t1mpani
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munk said:
I've noticed that too, though with an addendum--many seem to stop posting (myself included, on a daily level) but keep reading the forum. I still see a number of the old guys viewing and just not actively participating. As for myself, I don't often have that many questions anymore, and other people's questions have usually been answered (better than I could have) by the time I read them. I'm still a very active daily specials watcher.
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munk said:
Communicating only through the medium of written text is HARD.
Maybe that is why the pace of progress picked up after things like the telephone were invented.
And movies and television greatly increased the power of propagandists.
The paradox is that properly written text can be more powerful than a soundbite.
True communication is difficult, no matter what the meduim.
In the days of several-week or month delivery for mail written communication was a carefully considered thing. Now, it is nearly as instantaneous and reflexive as speech but lacking in the nuances that speech communicates.
What does this mean, I dunno, except maybe proof-read a couple of times before you click "send".
Since I felt the need to immediately edit this for content, I'm as guilty as anyone else in this regard.
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t1mpani said:Was proo-read a mistake or ironic humor?
I have a feeling it's the latter and I'm just too over-wraught with sleep induced stupidity to see the obviousness of it. I'll probably feel really stupid tomorrow.
Yeah, I wish I would have thought of that. You give me too much credit.
I have a slow connection, so I didn't see your message befoer I added another sentence, and happended to correct the typo. Otherwise I would have left it there.
That's the kind of thing I mean. Feel smart tomorrow.
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I'm very glad it all worked out. Sincerely. However, at the risk of irritating anyone on the list I have to say this. I'm not pointing fingers, but this comes from the heart and I hope will be regarded in that light:
Having been in Dan's position in the past, I feel compelled to say that human nature is pretty scary to me at times.
I recall that a whole bunch of folks lined up to give Dan a public "attaboy!" for handling the Kendo situation so adeptly, and rightly so IMO. We know Dan pretty much single-handedly set up the HI site for Uncle Bill, and has done _and is doing_ several kind and thoughtful things for other forumites. Yet at the very first sign of an unknown problem there is a whole 'nother line of people not giving him the benefit of the doubt and ready to toss him! In like 1 hour. Reminds me of the old Twilight Zone episode where the aliens get the folks on Maple Street to turn on each other overnight, with the barest of rumor as justification.
If I wasn't such an incredible burned-out cynic as a general rule, I would find it surprising. Actually, for one brief and somewhat disappointing moment tonight, I _did_ find it surprising. This place should ideally be a refuge from that kind of behavior.
No matter who is in "charge", or is responsible, or is in a leadership position sharing moderation duties, they are always an easy target. Guess it is just an unpleasant part of our makeup to focus on and critique those in authority. For example, I manage 20 people at my job, and when I started and reviewed the salary spread I found out that 2 of them were suffering from long-term salary compression, and were quite underpaid compared to the rest of the group. 3 previous Managers had allowed this to continue. In a year with the worst revenue in a decade, I busted my butt for 4 months, commisioned a salary survey, twisted a lot of arms and wrote a lot of letters, and got them both adjustment raises averaging 23%. Everyone else on the team averaged 2.75%. Neither of them ever thanked me, and one of them still gossips about my management style constantly and does her best to undermine my authority with the rest of the team. You're welcome.
All of which is to say that some people are just absolutely dedicated and determined to always find fault. Munk had a 100% legitimate beef, and he asked about it in a fair way. It all ended up being misunderstanding and human error, and all of the aspersions cast on Pen's behavior _and_ character in the meantime were (how shall I say it politely?) pretty *chickens^&t* in my opinion. At the very least I think they should be at least re-considered in the light of what we know now.
But that's just how I see it; I could be wrong...
Thanks and Regards,
Norm
Having been in Dan's position in the past, I feel compelled to say that human nature is pretty scary to me at times.
I recall that a whole bunch of folks lined up to give Dan a public "attaboy!" for handling the Kendo situation so adeptly, and rightly so IMO. We know Dan pretty much single-handedly set up the HI site for Uncle Bill, and has done _and is doing_ several kind and thoughtful things for other forumites. Yet at the very first sign of an unknown problem there is a whole 'nother line of people not giving him the benefit of the doubt and ready to toss him! In like 1 hour. Reminds me of the old Twilight Zone episode where the aliens get the folks on Maple Street to turn on each other overnight, with the barest of rumor as justification.
If I wasn't such an incredible burned-out cynic as a general rule, I would find it surprising. Actually, for one brief and somewhat disappointing moment tonight, I _did_ find it surprising. This place should ideally be a refuge from that kind of behavior.
No matter who is in "charge", or is responsible, or is in a leadership position sharing moderation duties, they are always an easy target. Guess it is just an unpleasant part of our makeup to focus on and critique those in authority. For example, I manage 20 people at my job, and when I started and reviewed the salary spread I found out that 2 of them were suffering from long-term salary compression, and were quite underpaid compared to the rest of the group. 3 previous Managers had allowed this to continue. In a year with the worst revenue in a decade, I busted my butt for 4 months, commisioned a salary survey, twisted a lot of arms and wrote a lot of letters, and got them both adjustment raises averaging 23%. Everyone else on the team averaged 2.75%. Neither of them ever thanked me, and one of them still gossips about my management style constantly and does her best to undermine my authority with the rest of the team. You're welcome.
All of which is to say that some people are just absolutely dedicated and determined to always find fault. Munk had a 100% legitimate beef, and he asked about it in a fair way. It all ended up being misunderstanding and human error, and all of the aspersions cast on Pen's behavior _and_ character in the meantime were (how shall I say it politely?) pretty *chickens^&t* in my opinion. At the very least I think they should be at least re-considered in the light of what we know now.
But that's just how I see it; I could be wrong...
Thanks and Regards,
Norm
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So, when I sat down at the bar, this seedy-looking character in a fedora (I mean, geez- a fedora), he says to me...
Hey. You can't please everyone all the time, or some people, at any time. From
my perspective, it's hard not to be pretty damn loyal toward people who continually work hard to do the right thing as they see it, are continually pleasant, and keep their word.
Everyone has a slightly different style than everyone else. Doesn't mean anyone's wrong, just different. And there are a lot of "different" folks here.
Y'all have a good night.
John
Hey. You can't please everyone all the time, or some people, at any time. From
my perspective, it's hard not to be pretty damn loyal toward people who continually work hard to do the right thing as they see it, are continually pleasant, and keep their word.
Everyone has a slightly different style than everyone else. Doesn't mean anyone's wrong, just different. And there are a lot of "different" folks here.
Y'all have a good night.
John
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Glad everything worked out.
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Talk about a dynamic environment You can miss a heck of a lot in 12 hours! Glad everything has worked itself out or is working itself out. I've got no beef with how any of the mods do their job. Some are more laid back than others. Some are more hardnosed. Its the nature of things. 'Nuff said by me
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"In a year with the worst revenue in a decade, I busted my butt for 4 months, commisioned a salary survey, twisted a lot of arms and wrote a lot of letters, and got them both adjustment raises averaging 23%. Everyone else on the team averaged 2.75%. Neither of them ever thanked me, and one of them still gossips about my management style constantly and does her best to undermine my authority with the rest of the team. You're welcome." Svashtar
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Norm, I feel ya buddy. I don't manage more than 5 people at my job, but totally understand what you must go through. It doesnt matter how much you over-look or how much you do for them or how much general crap you put up with, their are always going to be workers that are ungrateful poop-throwing monkeys. I see it every day with just a few people. I can't see how you can deal with it managing 20. Kudoes to you! Just a bit of bitter sympathy from one cynic to another Hang in there.
~Jake
You can miss a heck of a lot in 12 hours! Glad everything has worked itself out or is working itself out. I've got no beef with how any of the mods do their job. Some are more laid back than others. Some are more hardnosed. Its the nature of things. 'Nuff said by me--------------------------------------------------------------
"In a year with the worst revenue in a decade, I busted my butt for 4 months, commisioned a salary survey, twisted a lot of arms and wrote a lot of letters, and got them both adjustment raises averaging 23%. Everyone else on the team averaged 2.75%. Neither of them ever thanked me, and one of them still gossips about my management style constantly and does her best to undermine my authority with the rest of the team. You're welcome." Svashtar
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Norm, I feel ya buddy. I don't manage more than 5 people at my job, but totally understand what you must go through. It doesnt matter how much you over-look or how much you do for them or how much general crap you put up with, their are always going to be workers that are ungrateful poop-throwing monkeys. I see it every day with just a few people. I can't see how you can deal with it managing 20. Kudoes to you! Just a bit of bitter sympathy from one cynic to another
Hang in there.~Jake
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Yes....feeling a bit smarter this morning....firkin said:
In case anybody is curious, here's what happened:
I got a chuckle from what munk wrote about Yangdu and Bill:
So I hit the quote button....looking back, I did wonder why there were no quote tags around his post...I thought perhaps is was a computer error. Turned out to be a grave human error.
Anyway, I trimmed the quote and posted my "me too" after it.
Here is a direct link:
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2586209&postcount=4
And here is a screen capture showing what I see on my computer screen:
Every post has an edit button next to the quote button - something, I apparently was not vigilante in avoiding it(that, of course, has changed now....
).This is not an excuse but rather an explanation.
I take the blame 100% for this error - and it's one that I'll likely never forget.
Again - thanks to those who gave me the benefit of the doubt. I don't go around trying to see who I can edit and moderate...before I took this position, I purposely avoided any threads that had any questionable, argumentative, controversial or negative content. Now I have to read them whether I want to or not. It's an exercise in tolerance for all of us.
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The most I've ever had to manage was 5....there's no feeling like having to take the heat for an underling's work.Steely_Gunz said:
I was once asked to fire somebody because the boss didn't "like her anymore"...(read: couldn't afford to pay her anymore)...she was a good employee and had done nothing wrong. She had "been there too long" and was starting to become "overpaid". He wanted me to fire her because he was chicken to do it (loud, bossy lady - but nice to me for some reason....
). Anyway, the end result was me walking out the door that afternoon, never to return. Whether or not he ever fired her, I do not know. But, I retained my honor and integrity. She never knew about it.
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It all looks resolved to me but final decisions lay with Rusty.
Because of my undependability due to illness/treatment I may be here or I may not. Can't moderate a forum correctly like that so I gave Rusty full and final authority to make any/all decisions in any matter that might require it and this one is included.
At present I am Moderator Emeritus + a little. I'll be here when I can and do what I am able to do but no guarantees. I'm facing too many medical problems to devote the time and effort to this forum that I once did. I'll just do my best with what I've got and hope everybody understands the situation.
Because of my undependability due to illness/treatment I may be here or I may not. Can't moderate a forum correctly like that so I gave Rusty full and final authority to make any/all decisions in any matter that might require it and this one is included.
At present I am Moderator Emeritus + a little. I'll be here when I can and do what I am able to do but no guarantees. I'm facing too many medical problems to devote the time and effort to this forum that I once did. I'll just do my best with what I've got and hope everybody understands the situation.
I once saw a documentary about an African tribal government. It had all the usual Ministers: Education, Roads, Farming and The Minister Who's Fault It Is. This guy would take the blame for any mistakes made by the King or any of his government. He was happy to do so - it was his job, he was an expert at apologies and diffusing a situation.
I suggest HI have the same. Perhaps somone on the boards could be the person who always takes the blame. This gives everyone somone to shout at without offending. Any volunteers?
--Hope this doesn't appear too flipant--
I suggest HI have the same. Perhaps somone on the boards could be the person who always takes the blame. This gives everyone somone to shout at without offending. Any volunteers?
--Hope this doesn't appear too flipant--
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Hi Guys,
Well although my intial reaction was against the cenorsing :grumpy: of Munks clearing the junk comment, I am glad I waited to see what Pen Had to say.{2 sides & all that}
Sounds like an easy mistake anyone of us could make{well I could anyway! }
I would have reacted in the same manner as Munk but possibly worse !
I am certainly curious about the stuff Rusty had to say,
I hope you guys can resolve this, as Rusty seems to feel he has a legitamate grievance with Pen.
Must admit I am interested to know why. I must have missed something {saw the kendo stuff}
Anyway thats my 2 pennies! :footinmou
Spiral
Well although my intial reaction was against the cenorsing :grumpy: of Munks clearing the junk comment, I am glad I waited to see what Pen Had to say.{2 sides & all that}
Sounds like an easy mistake anyone of us could make{well I could anyway!
}I would have reacted in the same manner as Munk but possibly worse !
I am certainly curious about the stuff Rusty had to say,
I hope you guys can resolve this, as Rusty seems to feel he has a legitamate grievance with Pen.
Must admit I am interested to know why.
I must have missed something {saw the kendo stuff}Anyway thats my 2 pennies! :footinmou
Spiral