Best and fastest way to sharpen kitchen knives?

[davek14]

+1 on maintaining your edges. If I'm using a carbon steel knife I do 5-6 passes on a steel after each use. If a harder steel, I do the same with ceramic sticks after each use.
The steeling especially takes literally seconds. The ceramic sticks, not much longer. After each use is the thing. Occasionally you'll also have to take to the stones, but only occasionally.

Victorinox might be soft enough to steel.

+1 on wooden cutting boards as well. It's not intuitive, but Ive seen studies that they actually harbor bacteria less.

 

[me2]

Yust watched the video.
Excelent.
I'm surprised. Sharp knife without those expensive japanese stones, just one cheap stone.

Those types of stone work very well in knives like Victorinox. They don’t work well on Japanese laminated kitchen knives. It’s not that they just don’t sharpen, they actually damage the edge. They’re ok for stuff like Spyderco kitchen knives and down.

 

[AFAustin]

For years I've set the original edge on all our knives, including kitchen knives, with my Work Sharp Ken Onion. (I'm probably in the minority as I prefer the original version without the Blade Grinding Attachment.) Then I maintained the edges with my Sharpmaker and strops.

A while back, though, I decided to try out an Idahone V-type sharpener, and now use it more than the Sharpmaker for maintenance. I like the longer rods and the cylindrical shape (though with the latter you have to be careful not to slip your point off the stone and round it). Another big plus is the coarse rods, which are a much lower grit than the Sharpmaker brown rods and really get the job done a lot faster if the edge is fairly dull.

 

[TheOne45]

Those types of stone work very well in knives like Victorinox. They don’t work well on Japanese laminated kitchen knives. It’s not that they just don’t sharpen, they actually damage the edge. They’re ok for stuff like Spyderco kitchen knives and down.

The beauty is not in this particular stone but in 'only one stone' approach.
I don't know about japanese knives but you can put a scary edge on CPM110V steel or any other exotic steel knife only with #600 diamond plate.
By the way... are those japanese knives full of carbides made with powder technology or just plain carbon steel knives? How they sharpened them back then when diamond stones were not yet invented?

 

[me2]

The old ones were just high carbon steel, as are the ones I have. Something similar to 1095. They have a small amount of simple carbides. The trouble is the cheap stones wear smooth and don’t cut the steel. They just glaze over and smear the steel which leads to edge chipping during sharpening. Imagine using a butchers steel with very heavy pressure.

 

[TheOne45]

I see.
I think Cliff Stamp was talking about this in one of his videos.. about type of steel and how much pressure you need to apply when sharpening so the stone does not get glazed.
But I don't use such stones so I have no experiences with this. I only use diamond plates.

 

[me2]

I have my own set of issues with diamond plates. These cheap stones work, you just need to really push down on them every so often to break through the glazed surface. My Norton Economy stone has a glazed fine side that I won't be using again on any of my Japanese kitchen knives, even after it's reconditioned. It works pretty well on the cheaper steels like used in my stainless kitchen knives, particularly the coarse side.

 

[TheOne45]

I have my own set of issues with diamond plates.

I personally didn't like the idea behind those water stones. You need to wet them so there is water and slurry and mess and clogging.
I also never used those expensive diamond plates. I don' t know if they would give me a better sharpening experience as those cheap plates I'm using. I somehow like cheap and simple approach so I got those cheap plates ($5 a piece) to see if they work and they do. The hardest steel I have in the house is my Bowie knife I mad of HSS steel (about 65-66HRc) and those plates cut it without a problem.
Huh, I missed my point. Was trying to say I went through 'edge polishing and hair whittling' phase but now I like 'less is more' approach so I only use one diamond plate (usually #240 or #320) and a strop.
That's why I like those videos 'using just one stone'.

 

[me2]

I’ve used the DMT plates in the past but they wear out. Clearly you don’t wear the diamonds down but they get pulled out of the nickel layer. I use diamonds now for finishing passes but not for heavy metal removal unless it’s something I know a normal stone won’t effectively cut.

Water stones take some getting used to. The way I use them they don’t really get a slurry. However I have one knife that I thin out on the water stones and yes it can be a mess. the edge will get thicker than I like so about once a year I have to go through thinning it out. It’s laminated carbon steel so I sometimes have to polish it up due to rust as well.

 

[Cementite]

I recently picked up a Norton India alox combo stone (I have close to a dozen alox and SiC Nortons going back to the 1950s from my Dad) and finally decided I was going to learn freehand sharpening if it was the last thing I did. After probably 10-20 hours messing with it and sharpening all my knives (also using DMT diamond stones, Shapton ceramic waterstones and a few others), I think I've started developing the muscle memory needed to do this in the future. It takes a while, but is well worth the effort IMHO. I'm not quite to the skill level of getting them "push through paper" sharp, but most of them will "slice through paper" ... which is a heck of a lot sharper than I was ever able to get them in the past.

A few old kitchen knives were dull dull dull (I didn't realize HOW dull until I tried to raise a burr) but after an hour or so using the coarse Norton India and Crystolon, I finally raised a burr on one side, then switched to the other side of the knife, which raised a burr much faster, and then progressed through the finer grits. Raising that initial burr all along the edge on a really dull knife can take a LONG time, even with the coarsest SiC oilstone, but once you do, the rest of the sharpening goes surprisingly fast. My point here is that if your knives have gotten pretty dull, you're going to want something fairly coarse (like 100-150 grit) to raise that initial burr, or you'll likely get tired and discouraged ("Maybe this steel just won't raise a burr...or maybe I suck so bad at sharpening that I'll never learn it!") before you do. I think that was a part of why I never really got the hang of freehand sharpening--I used stones that were too fine-grit, and I gave up and abandoned my efforts in defeat before I should have. On the other hand, if I had used coarser stones, maybe I would have stuck with it long enough to get a success or two under my belt, which would have kept me working at it. In my opinion, you need to get a "win" on the board to encourage you early-on in your sharpening journey, just like any other pursuit...

I plan to maintain these knives now that I've gotten the hang of freehand sharpening, so most of the work should be done. Touch-ups shouldn't take long if I keep up with it, I hope.

 

[UncleBoots]

I’ve used the DMT plates in the past but they wear out. Clearly you don’t wear the diamonds down but they get pulled out of the nickel layer. I use diamonds now for finishing passes but not for heavy metal removal unless it’s something I know a normal stone won’t effectively cut.

You do wear the diamonds down. I've seen the result under a microscope. I imagine the process is that as you use the plate, little pieces chip off of the diamond.

 

[Papilio]

You do wear the diamonds down. I've seen the result under a microscope. I imagine the process is that as you use the plate, little pieces chip off of the diamond.

Both monocrystalline and polycrystalline diamonds? Do you know if that makes a difference?

 

[UncleBoots]

Both monocrystalline and polycrystalline diamonds? Do you know if that makes a difference?

Very interesting question. I don't know. I mean, I assume both wear down by the same mechanism, or some other mechanism that does not require higher hardness than the thing being eroded, but I see where you're going -- a different shape could mean a large difference in chipping behavior.

 

[Cementite]

I think I've heard that diamonds wear down faster if you put any pressure on the knife when sharpening. Diamonds are very hard, but they aren't "tough" at all. So if you put undue pressure on them, I guess they crush/break into smaller pieces, and go bye-bye. I've also heard that diamond plates act like a finer grit than they're labeled over time, which probably happens for the same reason. (I suspect they wear down over time no matter how light a pressure you use, but wear down faster under more pressure.)

When I was a kid and heard that diamonds were the hardest thing known to man, I remember thinking, "So I could hit my Mom's diamond ring with a hammer and it wouldn't do anything...right?" So glad I never tried that little experiment...a little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing!

ETA: Regarding monocrystalline vs polycrystalline diamonds, I just found this here:

"Ballas and carbonado diamond are exceptional, as they are polycrystalline and therefore much tougher than single-crystal diamond..."

 

[garry3]

I recently picked up a Norton India alox combo stone (I have close to a dozen alox and SiC Nortons going back to the 1950s from my Dad) and finally decided I was going to learn freehand sharpening if it was the last thing I did. After probably 10-20 hours messing with it and sharpening all my knives (also using DMT diamond stones, Shapton ceramic waterstones and a few others), I think I've started developing the muscle memory needed to do this in the future. It takes a while, but is well worth the effort IMHO. I'm not quite to the skill level of getting them "push through paper" sharp, but most of them will "slice through paper" ... which is a heck of a lot sharper than I was ever able to get them in the past.

A few old kitchen knives were dull dull dull (I didn't realize HOW dull until I tried to raise a burr) but after an hour or so using the coarse Norton India and Crystolon, I finally raised a burr on one side, then switched to the other side of the knife, which raised a burr much faster, and then progressed through the finer grits. Raising that initial burr all along the edge on a really dull knife can take a LONG time, even with the coarsest SiC oilstone, but once you do, the rest of the sharpening goes surprisingly fast. My point here is that if your knives have gotten pretty dull, you're going to want something fairly coarse (like 100-150 grit) to raise that initial burr, or you'll likely get tired and discouraged ("Maybe this steel just won't raise a burr...or maybe I suck so bad at sharpening that I'll never learn it!") before you do. I think that was a part of why I never really got the hang of freehand sharpening--I used stones that were too fine-grit, and I gave up and abandoned my efforts in defeat before I should have. On the other hand, if I had used coarser stones, maybe I would have stuck with it long enough to get a success or two under my belt, which would have kept me working at it. In my opinion, you need to get a "win" on the board to encourage you early-on in your sharpening journey, just like any other pursuit...

I plan to maintain these knives now that I've gotten the hang of freehand sharpening, so most of the work should be done. Touch-ups shouldn't take long if I keep up with it, I hope.

Spend the same amount of time on both sides of the knife or you will end up with uneven bevels.

The Crystolon will cut faster than the India but it sheds grit which isn't great for the apex, while the India will cut slower it is a harder stone and will produce a cleaner, sharper edge. So a crystolon to an India is a good progression, concentrate on getting the the edge as sharp as possible off of the coarse stones, don't think you can make it up on the finer stones. It's really a good idea to keep it simple at first with a stone progression, put any India after a coarse or medium crystolon (Crystolon's and India's go together like pb&j) and see how good of an edge you can make and how that edge serves your needs. Some like more or less toothy edges and you will probably find that it is knife and task dependant.

The quality of edges is very much dependant on the ability to remove the burr. Lots of ways to do it, I like to very slightly raise the knife so that I insure I'm on the apex and take very light alternating edge leading strokes. If I want more than that a strop on newspaper serves me well enough. The problem with loaded strops is they remove the tooth from the edge, I encourage you to figure it out without having to rely on loaded strops, you will be miles ahead.

 

[Papilio]

Very interesting question. I don't know. I mean, I assume both wear down by the same mechanism, or some other mechanism that does not require higher hardness than the thing being eroded, but I see where you're going -- a different shape could mean a large difference in chipping behavior.

I think I've heard that diamonds wear down faster if you put any pressure on the knife when sharpening. Diamonds are very hard, but they aren't "tough" at all. So if you put undue pressure on them, I guess they crush/break into smaller pieces, and go bye-bye. I've also heard that diamond plates act like a finer grit than they're labeled over time, which probably happens for the same reason. (I suspect they wear down over time no matter how light a pressure you use, but wear down faster under more pressure.)

When I was a kid and heard that diamonds were the hardest thing known to man, I remember thinking, "So I could hit my Mom's diamond ring with a hammer and it wouldn't do anything...right?" So glad I never tried that little experiment...a little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing!

ETA: Regarding monocrystalline vs polycrystalline diamonds, I just found this here:

"Ballas and carbonado diamond are exceptional, as they are polycrystalline and therefore much tougher than single-crystal diamond..."

I found a short overview here: https://www.knivesandtools.com/en/ct/sharpening-stone-materials-which-are-the-best.htm

 

[Cementite]

Spend the same amount of time on both sides of the knife or you will end up with uneven bevels.

Thanks. Yeah, I wondered about that. And you're right -- I did in fact end up with a much longer bevel on one side than the other on that (formerly) super dull knife.

In the past, I've always alternated between sides, but I recently watched a YT video by a guy who seemed to know what he was talking about (Burrfection?) who said he never switches sides until he has raised a burr on the entire length of the blade on one side. I guess the difference is that he's not sharpening super dull knives, like I was, so it doesn't take much to raise a burr for him.

I guess the next time I sharpen that particular knife, I'll start on the "short bevel" side and just work on that until I raise a burr on its full length, then switch sides. Maybe that will even it out some. Then after that, I'll alternate like I used to.

 

[DeadboxHero]

Freehand on bench stones is the way.

 

[garry3]

Thanks. Yeah, I wondered about that. And you're right -- I did in fact end up with a much longer bevel on one side than the other on that (formerly) super dull knife.

In the past, I've always alternated between sides, but I recently watched a YT video by a guy who seemed to know what he was talking about (Burrfection?) who said he never switches sides until he has raised a burr on the entire length of the blade on one side. I guess the difference is that he's not sharpening super dull knives, like I was, so it doesn't take much to raise a burr for him.

I guess the next time I sharpen that particular knife, I'll start on the "short bevel" side and just work on that until I raise a burr on its full length, then switch sides. Maybe that will even it out some. Then after that, I'll alternate like I used to.

Alternating strokes is just to remove the burr to get a clean apex.
All kinds of ways to sharp but the burr method is the easiest way to learn, just give both sides of the knife equal time.

 

[TheOne45]

Freehand on bench stones is the way.

Yes indeed... if you like wet and messy.
Don't flood your house while sharpening.