Best Battoning Grind/Blade shape

It's good that you are upfront about your association with EGKH. I wondered why you owned the khukuri that ate New York. Regarding appearance, I just want reasonable fit and finish. My knives are users, so I don't care about polish, at all. I really like my swamp-rat and it's flat black. If EGKH steel is as good as HI, I'm in. However, I just ordered a Browning Crowell-Barker knife, so khukuri will have to wait. I don't know much about grinds. It never dawned on me that a khukuri with fillers would be considered a flat grind, is it?
 
Well, the giant khukuri I purchased with my own money, while waiting for the Becker Bk21 to come out, and it was actually what started my relationship with EGKH.

The khukuri I believe would be considered a partial flat, or convex grind... I am not sure which.

I have done some brutal testing on my khukuris, as I have shown in my video, and the heat treat has been excellent.

In fact, I am trying to save up for something in infi to do a comparative destruction test against.:GB_bonesrock:
 
It's good that you are upfront about your association with EGKH. I wondered why you owned the khukuri that ate New York. Regarding appearance, I just want reasonable fit and finish. My knives are users, so I don't care about polish, at all. I really like my swamp-rat and it's flat black. If EGKH steel is as good as HI, I'm in. However, I just ordered a Browning Crowell-Barker knife, so khukuri will have to wait. I don't know much about grinds. It never dawned on me that a khukuri with fillers would be considered a flat grind, is it?
 
I've been looking on amazon at EGKH products and they have an impressive variety. If EGKH was smart they would have you video a test on all of them, one at a time. I don't know how youtube works but you'd think that would give you an enormous presence. I'd really like to see that. Have you ever used an Ontario SP53? BTW, if I'm asking too many questions just let me know, I won't be offended.
 
vcbvcbvcb said:
However, I just ordered a Browning Crowell-Barker knife, so khukuri will have to wait. ?
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The Browning Crowell-Barker doesn't get the attention it deserves, IMHO. It has become one of my, if not my favorite, knives....and I have lots of them, in about any brand and configuration you can think of. I think you'll enjoy the Crowell-Barker .
 
Ichor, I started out asking about a good baton knife, saying that I didn't care about chopping. Then I end up buying a competitive chopper! According to the reviews I read or watched the Crowell Barker chopped better than most, batons really we'll, and has the functional detail of a custom knife. The thing that pushed me over the top was the fact that it was 4-5 ounces lighter than all the knives it was positively compared to, had a sheath that looked possible to convert to lefty, and in an "All outdoor Noss destruction test" it did better than a BK-9. It also has the grind that Beachmaster said was good for a baton knife. The destruction test really got me, light and tough, how do you beat that? The Khukuri's next.
 
beachmaster said:
Well, to answer your question, I think that blade grind is simply less important in soft wood than hard.
A general rule is thicker is better.

But for hard wood, in my experience, the fat saber grind just wasn't "cutting it", where as the shallow partial flat grind on the Bk9, and the full flat grind of the Ontario RTAK II and Sp5 did great.
The Khukuri I believe did great due to its slick finish (lack thereof), and the angle at which the blade travels through the wood.

There are a lot of variables at play here, but a lot of the experience most people have is with one knife, and most any quality knife can baton well.

It is only when you have a hand full, and do them back to back, imho, that you really see which knife is more effective.
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I believe what you're experiencing is just geometry (that is, sine, cosine, etc). With a low saber grind, the knife will have a more obtuse grind angle, which means that the force required to go straight down through the piece is the normal "straight down" force, and the cosine of the force down and that grind angle (could be sine, I'm a bit rusty, but hopefully you get the idea). This means that a low saber grind will force the wood apart faster, but should require more force to do so. I guess it depends on if you say that is "better" or not. As a thinner blade should slide through the wood easier, but won't "pop" the wood apart like a thicker/more obtuse knife will.

A convex grind "should' have the least friction, because its constant curve should let it have less friction. But, wood has flex, so that might not work (because the wood might follow the bend, making the shape a moot point).

But you're right the finish plays a big part in friction. My BK9 batons and chops much better now with the coating gone. I'd imagine other knives are the same way.

beachmaster said:
Well, the giant khukuri I purchased with my own money, while waiting for the Becker Bk21 to come out, and it was actually what started my relationship with EGKH.

The khukuri I believe would be considered a partial flat, or convex grind... I am not sure which.

I have done some brutal testing on my khukuris, as I have shown in my video, and the heat treat has been excellent.

In fact, I am trying to save up for something in infi to do a comparative destruction test against.:GB_bonesrock:
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Just as a heads up, what you're calling a "partial flat" grind, is usually referred to as a "high saber" grind (I could be wrong, but I've seen that thrown around a bit). Also a fuller doesn't change the type of grind that a knife has, it instead serves the purpose of changing the balance point, reducing weight, etc. A good example is the Kabar USMC (1217). It is a low saber grind with a fuller (just the first knife I could think of with a fuller).

Anyway keep up the good work :).
 
OcnLogan, I am fairly certain that you are correct on most of, if not all of your points.

I thought that a saber grind was convex, as apposed to a hollow grind which is concave?

So if it has the shape of the saber grind, but it's flat, I think it's scandi, or partial flat?

Again, I could be WAY wrong.

There is a balance point with a saber grind. If the Sp10 was more "weight forward", or the balance was right (guard kills it), the short saber grind might work better.

But the combination of the weight distribution and short saber grind ruins the knife imho.

There is always a balance point.

One of my videos might have to be "why the kabar is NOT the best survival knife"

Lol whenever I see a realistic post about a one knife option, a bushcrafting knife, or any other knife, and i see "all you need is a kabar" I have to resist gauging out my eye balls.

L O L
 
beachmaster said:
OcnLogan, I am fairly certain that you are correct on most of, if not all of your points.

I thought that a saber grind was convex, as apposed to a hollow grind which is concave?

So if it has the shape of the saber grind, but it's flat, I think it's scandi, or partial flat?

Again, I could be WAY wrong.

There is a balance point with a saber grind. If the Sp10 was more "weight forward", or the balance was right (guard kills it), the short saber grind might work better.

But the combination of the weight distribution and short saber grind ruins the knife imho.

There is always a balance point.

One of my videos might have to be "why the kabar is NOT the best survival knife"

Lol whenever I see a realistic post about a one knife option, a bushcrafting knife, or any other knife, and i see "all you need is a kabar" I have to resist gauging out my eye balls.

L O L
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bghorn said:
I think the only difference between sabre and scandi is secondary (edge) bevel.
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Saber grinds are simply a "full flat" grind that terminates before the spine. The termination can be up high (like on the BK9/BK12), or down low (like the ESEE 5, Kabar USMC). A convex grind is ... convex (not to be confused with simply a convex edge, which can be had on any type of grind). I guess its possible to have a convex edge that stops below the spine, its just that most of them are a continuous curve.

So yeah, a scandi grind is just a low saber grind, without a secondary bevel.

And your thoughts mirror my own about the SP10. I thought about entering the contest to win one a while back, but just decided that I'd let others have a better chance. The spine is thick, the grind is low and the edge is pretty thick as well (which should lend itself towards a batoning/bashing/chopping knife), but then the giant swedge, and the full guard are somewhat at odds with those other design choices. I feel like if it was a drop point, without the huge guard (at least the top one) and a smaller ricasso, the blade would make more "sense" with the rest of its design, and would probably work a bit better.

That's just my opinion though :p.

And I agree on the kabar USMC thing. They are time tested and proven, but they're not the best tool for pretty much anything outdoors related (although, not the worst choice either, which was part of its design, to be a more well rounded knife than the daggers that were used before).
 
Alright, I am tracking.

As far as the question about the sp53. I'll admit, I really want one. Actually, I think that it is in my amazon shopping cart...

How long it will stay there is anyone's guess... So many knives, so, so little $
 
I just received the Browning Crowell-Barker UPS a few minutes ago. Does anyone know if drool will hurt a satin finish? Cut the hair off my arm right out of the box and sliced paper like a razor-blade. I can't wait to see how it chops and batons this weekend. I only have one custom knife. It was twice the money and can't hold a candle to the fit and finish of this knife. Whoever made this knife really likes what they do for a living.
BTW, I am not the most adept at navigating this forum. I don't remember, but I don't think I realized that I was on the Ontario page when I 1st made this post. Sorry if being off topic annoyed anyone.
 
vcbvcbvcb said:
I just received the Browning Crowell-Barker UPS a few minutes ago. Does anyone know if drool will hurt a satin finish? Cut the hair off my arm right out of the box and sliced paper like a razor-blade. I can't wait to see how it chops and batons this weekend. I only have one custom knife. It was twice the money and can't hold a candle to the fit and finish of this knife. Whoever made this knife really likes what they do for a living.
BTW, I am not the most adept at navigating this forum. I don't remember, but I don't think I realized that I was on the Ontario page when I 1st made this post. Sorry if being off topic annoyed anyone.
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Looking back on how I've been chastised in the past, I don't blame him for this innocent comment, seeing how some members react to breaking the rules. And I'm not necessarily talking about Mods, just long time members who like to slap hands. One would think posting in the "incorrect" forum or being ("off topic")is one rung below clubbing baby seals. On topic, work that Crowell-Barker until yor hands hurt. Based on my experience, you won't be disappointed. BTW....drool didn't appear to damage the finish my Crowell-Barker ;)
 
Oh yeah, some sections of this forum get a little WILD with all of the rules, and the people who have been adhering to rules for years.

But I feel like the Ontario section here is a little more laid back :)
 
beachmaster said:
But I feel like the Ontario section here is a little more laid back :)
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I think that really speaks well about all of us. You guys know I'm not going to give anyone a hard time, and I'm glad no one else does either. We're all here to discuss knives that we like. I see no reason that would ever be anything other than fun.
 
Let me pull this together for everyone.
Ontario should contact some Bladesport contestants and do a collaboration. :)
Then we can talk about it.
 
LG&M said:
Let me pull this together for everyone.
Ontario should contact some Bladesport contestants and do a collaboration. :)
Then we can talk about it.
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So you are desiring Ontario to do something similar to TOPS as far as blade collaborations if I am following you?
 
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