Beware of Leatherman Squirt, that dirty backstabber!

El Rata Serpiente · Mar 25, 2005

I grabbed a LM Squirt and an Inova LED light the other day. The Squirt is an awesome little tool, its got pliers with a snappy lock-up, is comfortable to play with and has a nice smooth finish. It comes with a lifetime warranty too! Its knife blade had a nice drop-point instead of the usual SAK bluntness, and the pliers served me well in their first task of pulling nails from the wall of my room before I painted it. But just whe I felt good about my purchase, I felt the cold knife in my back. Today after work I tried to use the bottle opener to pop the top off a corona, and the head was too feeble to do the task! Furious that I had purchased a tool with a less than practical component, I shunned the proper can opener and was determined to make my tool do the work. It slipped and I ripped the **** out of my knucks on the bottle top....

Anyone else have any problems with the size of bottle opener component in a mini-tool? It seems inadequate for its purpose and that pisses me off...POS arg

Adi · Mar 25, 2005

I have one and the play on one or two of the blades is not great.It went back to LM who sent it back, saying that the play was within the parameters.
They then changed it for me but compared to a Micra some of the blades still wobble a bit.

znapschatz · Mar 25, 2005

El Rata Serpiente said:
I grabbed a LM Squirt and an Inova LED light the other day. The Squirt is an awesome little tool, its got pliers with a snappy lock-up, is comfortable to play with and has a nice smooth finish. It comes with a lifetime warranty too! Its knife blade had a nice drop-point instead of the usual SAK bluntness, and the pliers served me well in their first task of pulling nails from the wall of my room before I painted it. But just whe I felt good about my purchase, I felt the cold knife in my back. Today after work I tried to use the bottle opener to pop the top off a corona, and the head was too feeble to do the task! Furious that I had purchased a tool with a less than practical component, I shunned the proper can opener and was determined to make my tool do the work. It slipped and I ripped the **** out of my knucks on the bottle top.... Anyone else have any problems with the size of bottle opener component in a mini-tool? It seems inadequate for its purpose and that pisses me off...POS arg

Expecting something tiny like the Squirt to function like a full sized piece is not realistic. Even on the Micra the bottle opener is marginal. As an emergency tool, both Micra and Squirt will get the job done, but it takes a bit more care and patience than when using a larger LT or SAK. Since I usually have one of those with me, the matter seldom comes up. However, just for fun and practice I like to open bottles with the Squirt cap lifter and it always works. It's certainly more elegant than the old striker plate technique, and there might not be a door jamb around when you need one.

znapschatz · Mar 25, 2005

Adi said:
I have one and the play on one or two of the blades is not great.It went back to LM who sent it back, saying that the play was within the parameters.
They then changed it for me but compared to a Micra some of the blades still wobble a bit.

My S4 is right and tight. Could this be a quality control issue? Which Squirt model do you have?

El Rata Serpiente · Mar 25, 2005

I have a P4 with no problems with the knife blade, its nice and tight but then again I just bought it. The bottle opener on the other hand makes me mad. Its not that its too delicate to do the job, the head itself is too SMALL. It wont even hook under the cap properly. F***ing bastid. It looks about normal dimensions for a tool that small, but for some reason it won't work for me and it makes me cry

whyyy, bottle opener WHY

Alox · Mar 25, 2005

Has anyone else tried the bottle opener on the SwissTool Spirit? It's big enough, but on mine at least, works very poorly compared to the usual SAK. The problem seems to be that the wider screwdriver moves the fulcrum point too close to the edge that the hook engages. The cap bends up on the edge, but doesn't reliably pop off the bottle.

forforum · Mar 25, 2005

If you shake the bottle first, the cap will pop off more reliably!

Sorry, it's Friday and I couldn't resist.

bquinlan · Mar 25, 2005

I have not been all that impressed with either the Micra or the Squirt. If I'm going to carry something that size I much prefer SOG's CrossCut and CrossGrip. They aren't as cool looking, but they are much tougher and more practical, without being any bigger.

--Bob Q

Klingsor · Mar 25, 2005

Alox said:
Has anyone else tried the bottle opener on the SwissTool Spirit? It's big enough, but on mine at least, works very poorly compared to the usual SAK. The problem seems to be that the wider screwdriver moves the fulcrum point too close to the edge that the hook engages. The cap bends up on the edge, but doesn't reliably pop off the bottle.

Are you sure you own a Swisstool Spirit? The bottle opener of the Spirit is exact the same as in any other SAK of Victorinox, with 6mm screwdriver on top.

Alox · Mar 25, 2005

Yes, definitely a Swisstool Spirit. I guess "wider" isn't the right term - it's shorterfrom the "hook" to the end, so the base of the screwdriver is not as tapered.

I'm double checking right now:

Experimental apparatus:
Swisstool Spirit
Pioneer model SAK
(2) bottles domestic lager

With Spirit, fulcrum point of opener blade is about 2mm towards the handle from the center of the bottle cap. Opening motion bends the cap edge. Additional leveraging motion is required to remove cap.

With Pioneer, fulcrum point is about 1.5mm away from the handle past the center of the cap. Opening motion cleanly lifts cap.

By the way, a Camillus MIL-K knife bottle opener works better than either, IMHO.

cardimon · Mar 26, 2005

bquinlan said:
I have not been all that impressed with either the Micra or the Squirt. If I'm going to carry something that size I much prefer SOG's CrossCut and CrossGrip. They aren't as cool looking, but they are much tougher and more practical, without being any bigger.

--Bob Q

I have both. I like the fit and finish a lot. Quality workmanship, for sure.

The toothed gearing makes for compound leverage unheard of in such a tiny tool. The same teeth, however, also make for shredded pockets if you don't use the sheath. To my mind, the sheath is a PITA.

Bob, what are your thoughts about the sheaths, and how often do you carry either the CrossCut or the CrossGrip?

Klingsor · Mar 26, 2005

Alox said:
Yes, definitely a Swisstool Spirit. I guess "wider" isn't the right term - it's shorterfrom the "hook" to the end, so the base of the screwdriver is not as tapered.

I'm double checking right now:

Experimental apparatus:
Swisstool Spirit
Pioneer model SAK
(2) bottles domestic lager

With Spirit, fulcrum point of opener blade is about 2mm towards the handle from the center of the bottle cap. Opening motion bends the cap edge. Additional leveraging motion is required to remove cap.

With Pioneer, fulcrum point is about 1.5mm away from the handle past the center of the cap. Opening motion cleanly lifts cap.

By the way, a Camillus MIL-K knife bottle opener works better than either, IMHO.

You are right. Victorinox designed two different types of bottle opener. The Pioneer is a sak of the special "Soldier Series" with wider openers. All others have the same design like the Spirit. I dont own a sak of this series, but I never noticed any problem with the usual design.

bquinlan · Mar 26, 2005

cardimon said:
Bob, what are your thoughts about the sheaths, and how often do you carry either the CrossCut or the CrossGrip?

I haven't been carrying them lately (I'm never without a full-sized multi-tool), but I did carry a CrossGrip for a couple of years. You're right that the gears are bad for pockets when carried loose. And I never liked the sheath either.

I mostly carried it in the watch pocket of my jeans, which was small enough to keep it oriented so it didn't wear against the fabric. For loose carry I made a very basic kydex sheath that covered the gears. (I stole the micro-sheath idea from Normark.)

--Bob Q

shpshooter · Mar 26, 2005

Alox said:
By the way, a Camillus MIL-K knife bottle opener works better than either, IMHO.

Is the MIL-K the Demo knife? If so that thing is great. Doesn't have the fit and finish of a SAK, but you can't destroy them things. Reminds me of a Strider.

guy g · Mar 26, 2005

The problem I see is the cap lifter isnt long enough for a good grip. However it can easily take a cap off if used to work your way around the cap. It only took about a 1/2 inch and happy hour has started. You just cant get in a hurry or its a knucklebuster as stated above. Cheers,guy

Alox · Mar 26, 2005

shpshooter said:
Is the MIL-K the Demo knife? If so that thing is great. Doesn't have the fit and finish of a SAK, but you can't destroy them things. Reminds me of a Strider.

The MIL-K-818D is the full name. It's the standard all-stainless 4-blade US military pocketknife. It's often CALLED the "demo knife", but was not in fact intended for that purpose. (See http://www.donrearic.com/demoknife2.htm )

Yep, they're tough. Some of the early ones had problems with the springs and/or pivot pins. Later ones don't seem to have that problem. If the pivot pins get bent or worn, a competent cutler can replace them. Compared to a similar SAK (such as the Pioneer):

Fit and finish: much worse
Blade: bigger and better
Screwdriver(large): better, longer
Bottle opener: better than anything except a wall-mounted type
Can opener: not as good, but workable
Bail/Lanyard ring: much better - very string and will even accept a small carabiner
Awl/punch - varied through the years, but generally very good
Small/Phillips screwdriver: NONE

Special feature: mysterious pin on screwdriver/bottle opener blade - see below

There's been a lot of theories on the "mysterious pin" mentioned above. It's the opening means for that blade, but there's room for a conventional nail-nick. The most accepted theory is that it is intended to be used as a pin-punch and/or spring hook for disassembling various firearms. On most examples, this pin is knurled with a fairly abrasive texture, which makes it a decent improvised fingernail file. The length and diameter of the pin varies through the years (for different firearms?). The longer ones are sometimes found cut down to prevent the protruding pin from wearing a hole in the user's pocket.

These are great collectables, with a history that extends back to WWII. The later (post 1950-something) ones are labelled with the year of manufacture. I often carry a 1965 model (year I was born), with the pin cut short as described above.

shpshooter · Mar 26, 2005

I have a couple that were given to me from people in the military. They have become work knives sitting in my tool boxes. I know the one that hangs in my shop has the pin on it, I think that one came from Vietnam.

marcangel · Mar 26, 2005

The squirts bottle open is just plain old anemic and should be labled FEUO (For Emergency Use Only) otherwise, most of the implements are just fine. It IS a mini-tool and ANY mini-tool bottle opener is just going to be inadequate due to size constraints. Hell, even the bottle opener on the SAK which gets the job done is sub-standard relative to a 50 cent "church key" that's designed for that one purpose.

Klingsor · Mar 27, 2005

You also have to consider that sometimes you have one tool with more than one function. In the case of the Victorinox Spirit a bottle opener, a crate opener and a screwdriver. The crate opener makes the tool longer. If you make the bottle opener for better grip also longer, the overall length could be too long, so when you use the screwdriver the torsion forces could increase to the point of damaging the whole tool.

Buzzbait · Apr 1, 2005

I thoroughly tested my Spirit's bottle opener last night, with 5 different bottles of beer. No problems, at least on Saranac beer.