Black blade coatings

Maybe I am crazy but I find that smooth uncoated blades cut better with fewer hang ups than blades with a rough coating.
 
asdf12345 said:
The funniest thing is when companies have the "black tactical" coating available but then leave their liners raw and gleaming and their hardware satin...

If you're going to entertain such a silly premise, at least commit to it in a sensible way.
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Looking at you, my Ontario Utilitac II... You are so right about that asdf12345...
 
I don't get the dislike for coatings. The blades are either folded away or in a sheath the overwhelming majority of the time so looks is of no concern unless someone manufactures a reason for looks.

Through actual use I notice the opposite. A highly polished smooth blade tends to be pretty grippy in any material. A good example would be to run your fingers down some frosted glass. They just glide across the surface, on smooth clear glass, it grips your fingers, add a bit of pressure like you get when cutting and your fingers jump across the surface.

A coated blade batoning wood, if you think the coating is slowing you down then you need to grow some muscles, or sharpen your blade. The smooth Teflon coatings mimic the smooth polished bare surface. My worst knife for feeling grabby in any material is my ceramic folder and nothing gets more smooth than that.

Rough coatings do not slow a blade, if anything they help it along like the fingers in the glass example I gave.

I understand it looks ghey on a high dollar take lots of pics of knives, but on a working knife it is of no consequence when doing actual work. Coating or no coating, as long as it's sharp and I do my push-ups in the morning they all do the same jobs equally. Just my observations, nothing more.
 
Boris74 said:
I don't get the dislike for coatings. The blades are either folded away or in a sheath the overwhelming majority of the time so looks is of no concern unless someone manufactures a reason for looks.

Through actual use I notice the opposite. A highly polished smooth blade tends to be pretty grippy in any material. A good example would be to run your fingers down some frosted glass. They just glide across the surface, on smooth clear glass, it grips your fingers, add a bit of pressure like you get when cutting and your fingers jump across the surface.

A coated blade batoning wood, if you think the coating is slowing you down then you need to grow some muscles, or sharpen your blade. The smooth Teflon coatings mimic the smooth polished bare surface. My worst knife for feeling grabby in any material is my ceramic folder and nothing gets more smooth than that.

Rough coatings do not slow a blade, if anything they help it along like the fingers in the glass example I gave.

I understand it looks ghey on a high dollar take lots of pics of knives, but on a working knife it is of no consequence when doing actual work. Coating or no coating, as long as it's sharp and I do my push-ups in the morning they all do the same jobs equally. Just my observations, nothing more.
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Because batoning is the only thing people do with their knives and anyone who disagrees with you is a wimp. Amirite? :p
 
Boris74 said:
I don't get the dislike for coatings. The blades are either folded away or in a sheath the overwhelming majority of the time so looks is of no concern unless someone manufactures a reason for looks.

Through actual use I notice the opposite. A highly polished smooth blade tends to be pretty grippy in any material. A good example would be to run your fingers down some frosted glass. They just glide across the surface, on smooth clear glass, it grips your fingers, add a bit of pressure like you get when cutting and your fingers jump across the surface.

A coated blade batoning wood, if you think the coating is slowing you down then you need to grow some muscles, or sharpen your blade. The smooth Teflon coatings mimic the smooth polished bare surface. My worst knife for feeling grabby in any material is my ceramic folder and nothing gets more smooth than that.

Rough coatings do not slow a blade, if anything they help it along like the fingers in the glass example I gave.

I understand it looks ghey on a high dollar take lots of pics of knives, but on a working knife it is of no consequence when doing actual work. Coating or no coating, as long as it's sharp and I do my push-ups in the morning they all do the same jobs equally. Just my observations, nothing more.
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Un-coated blades are a preference of mine, but not a deal breaker. So I don't know if I'd call what I feel towards coatings as "hate", but perhaps others feel that way.

On folders, I care because it changes how I am perceived when I use the knife (particularly when I use it at work to cut an apple for lunch, or other similar "social" situations). In my experience, an all black knife gets lots of stares, and is perceived as a weapon more often than not. An uncoated blade gets much more positive feedback, which is why I prefer them. Also, the coating will almost always wear out (most of them anyway), leaving the knife looking funny being half coated. I'd rather skip to the end part anyway. But again, I don't really take many photos of my knives, its mostly how I want to be perceived by those around me that is the main reason for me to worry about looks.

And batoning, my experience has been the opposite of yours (perhaps because of different coatings/woods?). Perhaps if the coatings were of a higher hardness than the steel, the reduced surface area of the raised "bumps" would in fact glide through the wood like you're describing. But so far all I've seen is the blade binding in wood because of the coating coming off as it goes through, creating more friction. And the rough coatings I've used have acted more like sandpaper than anything else, and also have more friction, which has re-enforced my desire for un-coated blades.

And maybe its just the knives I've used, but beyond the first inch or so of the split, the edge doesn't usually contact the wood, as the angle created by the spine and the split of the wood leaves the edge not touching anything (unless its a big knot or something). So generally speaking I wouldn't say that edge sharpness has much to do with batoning ability, at least for the blades I've used for it (Mostly Becker knives).

I prefer to do my pushups at night, I've always been terrible at lifting in the mornings (I used to go to the gym a lot, and Saturday morning lifts I generally did 10-20% less weight. Its like my body didn't want to wake up :)).
 
ocnLogan said:
Un-coated blades are a preference of mine, but not a deal breaker. So I don't know if I'd call what I feel towards coatings as "hate", but perhaps others feel that way.

On folders, I care because it changes how I am perceived when I use the knife (particularly when I use it at work to cut an apple for lunch, or other similar "social" situations). In my experience, an all black knife gets lots of stares, and is perceived as a weapon more often than not. An uncoated blade gets much more positive feedback, which is why I prefer them. Also, the coating will almost always wear out (most of them anyway), leaving the knife looking funny being half coated. I'd rather skip to the end part anyway. But again, I don't really take many photos of my knives, its mostly how I want to be perceived by those around me that is the main reason for me to worry about looks.

And batoning, my experience has been the opposite of yours (perhaps because of different coatings/woods?). Perhaps if the coatings were of a higher hardness than the steel, the reduced surface area of the raised "bumps" would in fact glide through the wood like you're describing. But so far all I've seen is the blade binding in wood because of the coating coming off as it goes through, creating more friction. And the rough coatings I've used have acted more like sandpaper than anything else, and also have more friction, which has re-enforced my desire for un-coated blades.

And maybe its just the knives I've used, but beyond the first inch or so of the split, the edge doesn't usually contact the wood, as the angle created by the spine and the split of the wood leaves the edge not touching anything (unless its a big knot or something). So generally speaking I wouldn't say that edge sharpness has much to do with batoning ability, at least for the blades I've used for it (Mostly Becker knives).

I prefer to do my pushups at night, I've always been terrible at lifting in the mornings (I used to go to the gym a lot, and Saturday morning lifts I generally did 10-20% less weight. Its like my body didn't want to wake up :)).
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I got ya ;)

Sand paper glides across wood pretty easily, even when you put pressure on it. When we were wearing off the coating on my brothers schf9 and we could see it coming off in the wood, it didn't feel any more difficult. Where we did notice a big difference later in the day was my smooth 1095 uncoated blade was a PITA to get through some semi green pine wood, while his coated blade glid right through. That could also have been the grind and total geometry though. one thing that was for sure is the pine resin washed out of the coating easier than it did my smooth edge. It had one heck of a grip on the metal.

In my area we have mostly twisted oak and ash, no soft woods at all I've only put a knife to birch or pine a few times when I'm away from the homestead.

It probably is more to do with geometry and wood type than coated uncoated. As to the edge and wood contact when you baton, if you hit a big knot that edge will be going though it like you are cross batoning. I've seen dull edges rip through them, and I've seen sharp edges make a smooth cross cut in them. Them hang ups people get in wood is more to do with the log itself than the coating or no coating. If its dull you will have to pound harder to rip through it. The sharp edge will cut through it. These tough dry twisted oaks I split all the time tell me every time I do it. A sharp knife does better every time. Just my observations.

Good day kind sir!
 
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The only coated blades I use on a regular basis are an older saber grind Spyderco Manix 2 in CPM 154 and a SYKCO 311 with a fairly thick "rough" coating. Nothing has been able to damage the Spyderco's coating, but my understanding is it's some sort of DLC/TiNi coating and is harder than the steel below it. The 311 on the other hand has smoothed out across the most used sections but is still hanging on pretty well. I prefer bare steel but the spyderco coating is definitely good stuff and it'd be my second choice. The rough stuff... not so much.
 
Boris74 said:
I got ya ;)

Sand paper glides across wood pretty easily, even when you put pressure on it. When we were wearing off the coating on my brothers schf9 and we could see it coming off in the wood, it didn't feel any more difficult. Where we did notice a big difference later in the day was my smooth 1095 uncoated blade was a PITA to get through some semi green pine wood, while his coated blade glid right through. That could also have been the grind and total geometry though. one thing that was for sure is the pine resin washed out of the coating than it did my smooth edge. It had one heck of a grip on the metal.

In my area we have mostly twisted oak and ash, no soft woods at all I've only put a knife to birch or pine a few times when I'm away from the homestead.

It probably is more to do with geometry and wood type than coated uncoated. As to the edge and wood contact when you baton, if you hot a big knot that edge will be going though it like you are cross batoning. I've seen dull edges rip through them, and I've seen sharp edges make a smooth cross cut in them. Them hang ups people get in wood is more to do with the log itself than the coating or no coating. Of its dull you will have to pound harder to rip through it. The sharp edge will cut through it. These tough dry twisted oaks I split all the time tell me every time I do it. A sharp knife does better every time. Just my observations.

Good day kind sir!
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Yep, it would seem that the grind/specific coating/wood in question will make a big difference in the "stickiness". And I'll agree on the pine sap/resin. I broke down some fatwood with my stripped BK2 a few months ago, and man, that stuff sucks to get off the blade! Out of curiosity, what blade were you using? The schrade your brother used is one of their .25in thick models right? The ones with the somewhat low saber grinds? The BK2 is similar to that, and excels at batoning, because the spine is so thick, that usually only the shoulders of the secondary grind/spine transition is so wide that the "flats" (secondary grind) is hardly touching anything. Usually the coatings on BK2's come off first right at that transition because of that. If your knife was a FFG, with a thinner spine, it may just have had more surface area on the grain?

Just thinking here :).

Oh, and I've had times sanding with really rough sandpaper (40-60grit) that my motion was actually stopped (usually the first stroke or two) by the friction. After that the dust builds up and seems to lubricate the sandpaper to an extent, and it does slide pretty easily after that. What I was trying to say though is that generally speaking, it seems like rough surfaces grip more/have more friction (like skateboard grip tape), while typically smoother ones have less (ie, most bearings, etc). Although, there are exceptions to every rule.

And good point on the cross grain batoning, that for sure does prefer a nice sharp edge. And additionally, some woods are more fibrous, so the sharper edges can be a big help there as well, and obviously I prefer them. But I doubt you'll find anyone on this site advocating a duller blade anyway :p.

And good day to you sir :).


Cheers.
 
I was thinking all the same as you. My blade was made in a small one man shop. He likes being low key but makes the toughest knife I've seen. It's 3/16" thick and about 1 3/8" wide. Perfect hollow grind with a perfect differential heat treat. I've seen that blade flex, twist and look like an over loaded leaf spring more than a few times and be straight as an arrow when I'm done pounding. Love it but it's only 5" long.

Anyway. Sounds like we both have the same exact observations. I really don't know I could add anything that you at least already know. I have a couple new knives coming in next week that are thick and both are coated with different materials. I might come back to give my observation with a slick coating vs a rough coating after I unbox them and split a bunch of wood I have set aside, and some of it is gnarly and all knotted up.
 
Boris74 said:
I was thinking all the same as you. My blade was made in a small one man shop. He likes being low key but makes the toughest knife I've seen. It's 3/16" thick and about 1 3/8" wide. Perfect hollow grind with a perfect differential heat treat. I've seen that blade flex, twist and look like an over loaded leaf spring more than a few times and be straight as an arrow when I'm done pounding. Love it but it's only 5" long.

Anyway. Sounds like we both have the same exact observations. I really don't know I could add anything that you at least already know. I have a couple new knives coming in next week that are thick and both are coated with different materials. I might come back to give my observation with a slick coating vs a rough coating after I unbox them and split a bunch of wood I have set aside, and some of it is gnarly and all knotted up.
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Sounds good, I would be interested to see what you find.

And props for civil discussion on a forum. I award you +4 internets for today :D.
 
There was I time when I dug the black tactical look. I've had several knives and here is how I rank them:

Cold Steel: A joke. I don't know why they bother.
SOG: Their Titanium Nitride is fair to poor
Benchmade: fair
Kershaw's DLC: Best I've encountered.
ESEE Izula: Good so far, but haven't really put it through the wringer yet.
 
I generally don't go for coated blades, simply because I generally prefer the look of bare metal, but I have a couple Kershaws with DLC, and I've discovered that there's an actual benefit to it - adhesives don't seem to stick well to the DLC. I break down large quantities of boxes at work, which translates to cutting lots and lots of tape. On most knives, the adhesive from the tape starts to smear on and build up, which slows down cutting other things, like cardboard, unless I clean it off every once in a while. The DLC knives, however, have no such problem. While I still wouldn't really consider myself a fan, there can definitely be benefits to having a coated blade, at least with certain coatings.
 
ocnLogan said:
Sounds good, I would be interested to see what you find.

And props for civil discussion on a forum. I award you +4 internets for today :D.
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Well sir, I got the knives early. I already went out and beat the snot out of both. Being honest, both coatings pounded right through the logs from the same tree with ease. The rough finished one already has wear right down to bare metal though much less durable. The Teflon like coating is still fully intact. I got a pic of a knot that it sliced through with the rough finish that is nice to have a sharp edge on when you hit one. I'm going back to the river if rain holds off to destroy some wood with both. I'll have pics up later.
 
I tend to like the asthetics of black blades. To me, they make the knife look more subdued and less intimidating. I think it also makes the knife look smaller. All good qualities when using a knife around questionable people.
 
ocnLogan, here is what I found today. The coating on the SCHF37 I got today is rough, very rough. Like the skateboard tape comment earlier. I can honestly say a couple things about that specific coating. It didn't catch up from what I could tell, and it didn't help it go through either lol. I honestly can not say one way or the other, I'm just not noticing a coated blade slowing me down on a fresh out of the box schf37. I also got a SCHF26 and that knife for the price impresses me. The Teflon like coating is so tough, it isn't even wearing yet, it's all still on the blade. The steel is spectacular as well. The f26 is an impressive hunk of steel. In fact their 1095 has impressed me a lot. The coating sucks on the F37 and the F26 has a real tough one, of which I did not notice slowing me down or helping me out.

Here is some pics of the F37 straight from the box and right into a couple hours worth of chopping, splitting then being looked at around a fire I made with it after destroying a pile of wood.

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Here's the wear on my new knife half way through. Wasn't too hot but the swamps and river make it real humid, and my son found a turtle he wanted to show me. Good reason for a break right?

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Both the F37 and F26 are way better than one would think. They got the heat treat right on both. After an abusive chopping splitting test session both have earned a spot in my kit.

Wish I could say one way or the other something about coatings. I really don't have a positive or a negative. As long as it don't hurt performance, I don't care about looks. It would be nice if it helped but aim not seeing that either. It's to bare metal on the 1095 blade so it sure won't hold in oil on the entire blade. I take care of my tools so I'm not too worried.

Almost forgot. Many people comment on the jumping and it being too much. I just chopped and batoned for hours wearing no gloves and I don't have a single hot spot. I like the jumping right where it is and the rubery grips are perfect in my hand. Maybe I got lucky on the fit.
 
I prefer to remove the black coatings. I did this on two Tops knives, which have that black traction coating. I just removed it using aircraft paint remover which worked well. With the scales removed and the entire blade is submerged in vinegar. After a good hour pull it out, let it dry, then do it again. With a heavy patina on my blades, it lasted a long time. I use my Condor Alert a lot to split all kinds of wood, since I use a charcoal grill, I now only burn wood in it. At no time did I ever really clean up my knives, no rust has formed, even with some of the high humidity. Also found the look from the patina to be pleasing, and I have gotten a lot of compliments from my buddies on the looks.
 
asdf12345 said:
The funniest thing is when companies have the "black tactical" coating available but then leave their liners raw and gleaming and their hardware satin...

If you're going to entertain such a silly premise, at least commit to it in a sensible way.
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Well, the handles are usually in someone's hand, the blade would be the only thing sticking out. Unless some people out there have transparent or invisible hands... Not really an issue.
 
I am "old school" and like bare blades. My few that I own get used in the kitchen and I do not want any black coating flaking off in my food. They live in their sheaths in the kitchen drawer and show no signs of rust. Only natural patina.
 
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