Blade "flicking" nonsense : Canadian Law : Court Case

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Cliff Stamp

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Reference :

http://www.physics.mun.ca/~sstamp/wayne_ericksen.txt

and :

http://www.physics.mun.ca/~sstamp/goldrich.html

This law is totally moronic in the sense that any folder can be opened in such a manner if it is accelerated enough. It is like saying you exceeded the speed limit without the law ever stating what the limit was. In order for it to be at least sensible there should be a minimum amount of force needed before it would be classifed as a "gravity" knife. The whole idea of course is nonsense as swords are legal but a "switchblade" and related knives are not. Note the vague way in which the second case passes, how are you as a knife maker to interpret that when making a knife. Exactly how far can you go before it becomes a "gravity" knife?

-Cliff
 
So Cliff, does the second case mean that butterfly knives are no longer illegal in Canada, or just in that one case?

The first case is scary, because any folding knife can therefore be a "prohibited weapon"; I remember loosening up Buck 110 lookalikes as a kid and flicking them open too. Can't seem to do it with my Spydercos, but I can do the Spyderco drop on them which seems to make the law apply.

I do agree that our weapons laws are moronic though.

Pierre
 
Boy, that second case is interesting reading. It seems, then, that any butterfly knife (not of the latchless variety) would be legal as it requires an initial action to allow opening. While any other folding knife that did not incorporate a positive blade-lock would be illegal (including SAKs, Bucks, etc). That seems both ironic and confusing.
 
These are Tribunal decisions - not Courts - and these decisions have no precedential value or binding effect on a Court trying a charge under the Criminal Code. The law is still as set out in the Court decisions referred to elsewhere.
 
Interesting...

I had my SIFU recently seized by CCRA. I appealed once (unsuccessfully) and was considering facing the tribunal for a second appeal. The Ericksen appeal has convinced me that it would be a waste of time to appeal. Although I'm quite surprised that the Goldrich appeal was successful the fact that the knife was to be returned to the US probably helped a bit, but not much.

I have only one feasible solution that a Canadian e-tailer had suggested to me when ordering any folder; tighten up the pivot screws as much as possible so that even slow, one-handed openings would require considerable effort. It's not a guarantee that any knife would pass the customs inspection this way but at least it's better than a loose, "flickable" blade.

The Canadian laws regarding knives are certainly laughable, especially when they allow you to keep the blades that you already own but will seize anything you try to mail-order into the country...makes no sense. And I certainly find the law to contradict itself when it also allows local stores to sell the same knives that are possibly considered prohibited if ordered via mail.

I'm out a nice, LE Sifu but in the future, I'm making sure that at least the pivot screw is tighter than the anal rententive Canadian knife laws. Or maybe just stick to fixed blades (27" sword perhaps?). :mad:

Too bad these tribunal hearings are not considered precedents.

Burton
 
The problem is that even if these could be used as points of law, how would you do so? There are people like Jim March that can very easily flick open folders that the average person cannot budge. It is all a matter of skill. What was a "gravity knife" for Jim would be very different from someone else. Same thing with balis, I have never used them much at all and thus if I had to open one in a hurry I would be lucky to do it without bleeding, however there are many people on the forums that can do this effortlessly. Is it illegal for them, but legal for me?

This is the most moronic law I have ever seen, it is totally impossible to enforce without bias and even if it was it makes no sense in the first place. The only advice I can give is very similar to the above. If you are buying customs, and it is at all possible, get them really tight before shipping. The other thing would be to have them ship it in parts, blade in one go, handle in the other. Same goes for most productions I would assume if you could find someone to do that. The other alternative is to buy through dealers in Canada and let them take the risk.


-Cliff
 
HJK, thanks, I missed the Tribunal part :)

As for the laws, we're doubly screwed at Customs because the decisions that Customs officers make are totally arbitrary based on their interpretation of the law. So if we get a hoplophobe inspecting the package we want to import, we're probably screwed.

For reference, look up some info on the "Little Sisters" case in which it was arbitrariness of Customs w.r.t "pornography" rather than knives. In this case because the bookstore was a Gay and Lesbian outlet, items that were ok to import for Chapters were "pornography" if shipped to Little Sisters.

Pierre
 
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