Brief History of Pocket Knives

Jack Black said:
June 1914 - First stainless steel knives produced at Portland Works, Sheffield.

Edit - Please accept my apologies Al, that second date should have been 1914, not 2014! :D
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I knew it was but posted the way you had to see if anyone was reading?:rolleyes:
Fixed - :thumbup:
 
jackknife said:
Lockbacks were around in the mid 1800's as John Wilkes Booth had a locking folding dagger on him at Garrets barn.

Navaja's had locking blades in the early 1800's.

They've been around quite a while, just were not popu;ar with the masses. I've always been a bit mystified by this. It seems as long as we're doing knife history, it seems historically what Buck did was pull off a marketing coup to make the lock back a popular knife. By far overshadowing the slip joints that were the major pocket knife for generations before Buck pulled it off with the 110.
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What I'm not clear on is whether or not the lockback, with the pivoting sprung lockbar, was a Buck invention or not.

I know there were many lock designs that preceded the Buck 110.

Here is Bernard Levine's comments on the topic from another forum
Lockbacks using a backspring became common in the mid 1700s, after the invention of crucible steel (which was originally invented for clocksprings). Some lockbacks were probably made even earlier.

The Buck 110 is different than these. It uses a rocker bar and captive music-wire spring. As far as I know, this was the first use of this construction -- which is now widely imitated. The Bucks never patented this (maybe they tried, but I don't think so), but even if they had, the patent would have run out in 1979.
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Original post here: http://www.knifeforums.com/forums/showtopic.php?tid/413797/

It would seem that it's correct to credit Buck for what we commonly call the lockback design (meaning, rocker bar).

Buck 110 and 112 by Pinnah, on Flickr
 
Pocketknifesheaths said:
I knew it was but posted the way you had to see if anyone was reading?:rolleyes:
Fixed - :thumbup:
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Who is going to argue with Jack over Sheffield?? Should have jumped on that !! :eek::D:D

Maybe Jack was groggy from the pain meds - in use from the dental appointment. :confused::confused::o:D
 
Primble said:
Who is going to argue with Jack over Sheffield?? Should have jumped on that !! :eek::D:D

Maybe Jack was groggy from the pain meds - in use from the dental appointment. :confused::confused::o:D
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^^^
:D:thumbup:

You can post other cool dates in knife history, like knife takes flight around earth in orbit being first knife to travel that far.
I read about it, don't remember the flight or date off hand.
Kind of like Henry Ford would say? When I read that stuff, it's like why remember it, I have it right here in a book.
But if I put stuff down this way, it helps me a lot on the dates. --- Thanks for helping me out with this.
 
1942 - Soon after the start of World War II, the Union Cutlery Company submits a KA-BAR branded knife to the U.S. Marine Corps for issue to fighting personnel.

P.S. - the list on page one is growing - and very neat to see the time line.
 
pinnah said:
What I'm not clear on is whether or not the lockback, with the pivoting sprung lockbar, was a Buck invention or not.

I know there were many lock designs that preceded the Buck 110.

Here is Bernard Levine's comments on the topic from another forum


Original post here: http://www.knifeforums.com/forums/showtopic.php?tid/413797/

It would seem that it's correct to credit Buck for what we commonly call the lockback design (meaning, rocker bar).

Buck 110 and 112 by Pinnah, on Flickr
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Buck didn't 'invent' anything. They just did a heck of an advertising campaign and dressed it up with big brass bolsters that weighted a ton. The old German Mercator k55 was a rocker type lock back. So were the old Puma stag handle folding hunter, the lock back German F. Herders, and the other stag handle German folding hunters I saw in my younger days long before the Buck 110 was around. It's just like automobile were around before Henry Ford came out with the model T.
 
Made the list we did as a photo - now I can save it on my computer and look at it anytime I want.....:D
May have to do one or two more list to get what I want?:rolleyes:

Thank you all for the help on this. - :cool::thumbup:







.
 
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Here's a few more dates for you Al, I'll try and add more as and when I get the time :thumbup:

1432 BC – Discovery of iron (according to the Chronicle of Paros)

1075 (December 19th) – William the Conqueror’s army lay waste to Sheffield with fire and sword, razing every house to the ground. Among the edicts he then issued was one forbidding the re-building of iron works.

1285-86 – First London Cutler’s Hall established.

1297 – First documentary reference to a Sheffield cutler – Robert the Cutler is taxed.

1416 (4th December) – London Company of Cutlers Charter granted.

1570’s – Forging of steel at Attercliffe Forge in Sheffield recorded.

1624 (April 23rd) – Company of Cutlers in Hallamshire (Sheffield) established.

1724 – Star and Maltese Cross mark registered to Rodgers cutlers.

1780 - Rodgers move to No 6 Norfolk Street, Sheffield.

1820 – First Wharnecliffe knife.

An obituary of a very well respected Sheffield cutler named John Milner, published in The Sheffield Independent of 29th September 1863, records him as having claimed to have invented the lock-knife.
 


Knife with brass scales and cap in the form of a crown, 1530 (Sheffield Museum).
 
jackknife said:
Buck didn't 'invent' anything. They just did a heck of an advertising campaign and dressed it up with big brass bolsters that weighted a ton. The old German Mercator k55 was a rocker type lock back. So were the old Puma stag handle folding hunter, the lock back German F. Herders, and the other stag handle German folding hunters I saw in my younger days long before the Buck 110 was around. It's just like automobile were around before Henry Ford came out with the model T.
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Hmm....

I can see the similarity to the K55.

Mercator%20Pocket%20Knife%20-%20Stainless%20Steel%20ModelM55K%20copy.jpg


I'm sure I put this question off on the wrong foot by using the undefined term "lockback". I should have asked, what was the first incarnation of the "Buck-style lockback". While the Mercator design uses a pivoting rocker bar like the Buck there are some significant differences. a) The Buck style rocker bar is full length. The Mercator is very short. b) The rocker bar release is in the butt end of the frame, eliminating the problem of accidental disengagement. The Mercator style lock is exposed. c) The Buck style uses a simple, easy to mass produce piano-wire style spring.

I think you are absolutely correct that the Buck design is evolutionary, not revolutionary as it obviously builds on and extends earlier designs. In this way, I think you and Mr. Levine are both right. Buck didn't invent the lockback out of the blue, they just extended prior designs. But at the same time, the combination of design features that Buck brought together appears, to Mr. Levine's studied opinion, to be a first. I mean, of all people in the world, Levine is very aware of the Mercator design when he credits the Buck 110 as a first of sorts.

I think lists such as the one in this thread are interesting in terms of what gets added and what gets left off (to be brief). The Buck-style lockback has become a standard in the industry, not the Mercator style. This is why when we talk about a Case or GEC lockback, we mean a knife that uses the same design as the Buck 110. For this reason, I think the emergence of this style of lock should be on the short list along with the slip joint, liner lock and frame lock designs.

I would love to hear more about the Pumas and other German locking knives you referred to. Again, I would think Levine is/was aware of them when he wrote what he wrote about the Buck lockback. I'm guess there are some differences in the design? Pictures?
 
Al,
Thank You for starting this informative thread, and more thanks to our knife historians.
 
Jack Black said:
Here's a few more dates for you Al, I'll try and add more as and when I get the time :thumbup:
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Jack, Thanks, just add what is left in the post.
I won't put anymore on the front page. The final list is up, hope I got it right.
And I think it's enough to swell any ones brain - Enjoy!:):thumbup:

Thanks again everyone.
 
Pocketknifesheaths said:
facZZ.jpg


Some Historical Dates & History of Pocket Knives


GoodListZAK4.jpg
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So what do you think?
What do we need to change? Is there something we should add or take away?



If this is close to a pocket knife time line, we could save it some were for all to see and enjoy it?

I have a TON of books and can find out a LOT of stuff very easy if I have to on a knife.
But I think there a LOT of people who do NOT have these and something like this can help them on becoming a better knife collector.

So what should we do now?................Save it, put some were? or not?:confused:
 
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Good work Al :thumbup: There are one or two typos. Personally, I'm rather sceptical regarding the Ettrick.

I think it would be great if we could have a Resources sticky, as somewhere to post this, and stuff like keys to old tang stamps (Case, Imperial, etc), links to informative articles, and knife history PDFs. I have a whole load of stuff I could put up there, and I'm sure many others could. It'd be a good place to members to visit to find info, searchable like every other thread, and might even help stop some of the same questions coming up all the time :thumbup:
 
Jack Black said:
Good work Al :thumbup: There are one or two typos. Personally, I'm rather sceptical regarding the Ettrick.

I think it would be great if we could have a Resources sticky, as somewhere to post this, and stuff like keys to old tang stamps (Case, Imperial, etc), links to informative articles, and knife history PDFs. I have a whole load of stuff I could put up there, and I'm sure many others could. It'd be a good place to members to visit to find info, searchable like every other thread, and might even help stop some of the same questions coming up all the time :thumbup:
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Jack,

I was actually paraphrasing you:

“The Ettrick is a very traditional Sheffield pattern, which some claim goes back to the 1700’s. It’s name comes from the Scottish Ettrick Valley, where it was used by sheep farmers.”

On my list I said 1700s. The plural got lost in translation.
 
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