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Busse vs Mad Dog
- Thread starter Steve B.
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Strider,
I got the popcorn. Do you have any beer?
Shawn
I got the popcorn. Do you have any beer?
Shawn
I know how good Busses are. I've never used a Mad Dog, but they sure do look fine, with the differential temper, armour piercing design and all. But I don't like those handles. Even if they feel and work great, which I have no firsthand knowledge of, are other materials available?
Also, I've always wanted a Mirage X but am afraid it might shatter if dropped on a rock, which I sometimes do. Drop a knife, not shatter.
I've tried to be as noninflammatory as possible. Any comments on any of the foregoing, with the emphatic exception of the comparison to Bussse, please?
Also, I've always wanted a Mirage X but am afraid it might shatter if dropped on a rock, which I sometimes do. Drop a knife, not shatter.
I've tried to be as noninflammatory as possible. Any comments on any of the foregoing, with the emphatic exception of the comparison to Bussse, please?
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Mad Dog knives are only available with the handle you see in Walt's pics. They do feel good, in my opinion, even after long, hard use. The heat treatment of Mad Dog knives that you mention results in a blade that is resilient and holds an edge well. It may be true that if the hard part of the blade is stuck in a jam, and the blade twisted, there is a danger of breakage. This may be true of any differentially heat treated low to medium alloy tool steel blade. The Busse may well be more durable under those unusual conditions. But I like the ergonomics and style of the Mad Dogs better, and I have satisfied myself, through my own testing and use, that they are at least as durable as I feel it is reasonable to expect a steel knife blade to be, under the circumstances which I consider ordinary.
The situation among those who are familiar with Mad Dog knives on the Internet is that there are a half dozen or so who feel they have demonstrated poor performance from Mad Dog knives, and hundreds who are very satisfied, even enthusiastic, Mad Dog knife owners. There are also dozens who don't like the personality of the maker, but don't really have any experience with the knives.
The MirageX ceramic is surprisingly resilient, though if you dropped one from a sufficient height onto a hard surface, I believe it certainly would break.
The situation among those who are familiar with Mad Dog knives on the Internet is that there are a half dozen or so who feel they have demonstrated poor performance from Mad Dog knives, and hundreds who are very satisfied, even enthusiastic, Mad Dog knife owners. There are also dozens who don't like the personality of the maker, but don't really have any experience with the knives.
The MirageX ceramic is surprisingly resilient, though if you dropped one from a sufficient height onto a hard surface, I believe it certainly would break.
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Try breaking a Busse in any way short of putting it in a vise and putting a pipe over the handle and pulling it back until it snaps. (Which will surprise you how far you have to bend it).
That is reality. In the real world of tough knife use, YOU WILL NOT BREAK IT. Find some way to tear the slabs off and it will still be a good knife. Wrap some cord around it and off you go.
Don't know a damn thing about Maddog knives except they look more like fighters, so I am not trashing them, just telling what I know about Busses.
I do know that Jerry was not afraid to let Cliff have a sample to test, and just the thought of doing that scares the crap out of some knifemakers.
That is reality. In the real world of tough knife use, YOU WILL NOT BREAK IT. Find some way to tear the slabs off and it will still be a good knife. Wrap some cord around it and off you go.
Don't know a damn thing about Maddog knives except they look more like fighters, so I am not trashing them, just telling what I know about Busses.
I do know that Jerry was not afraid to let Cliff have a sample to test, and just the thought of doing that scares the crap out of some knifemakers.
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Busses are great knives. So are Mad Dogs. Please forgive me for being repetitive, there may be some special circumstances in which a Busse may be stronger. But strength isn't everything, and knowing what I know about the strength of Mad Dog knives, I still prefer them personally. Mad Dogs may not be indestructible, but they are still great knives. That is all I am saying.
I own a Pack Rat, an Arizona Hunter, a Bayou Hunter, a Baby Mako, and a Voodoo Hound. Only the Voodoo Hound is a fighter, the rest are all tactical/utility.
I own a Pack Rat, an Arizona Hunter, a Bayou Hunter, a Baby Mako, and a Voodoo Hound. Only the Voodoo Hound is a fighter, the rest are all tactical/utility.
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Lenny,Lenny,Lenny,
Since I see you're from Belvidere, first you better go down to Hot Dog Johnnie's by Rt.46 and stock up on them babies.
A search under Mad Dog will reap hours of reading and entertainment.
If you can get past the hype and self grandizing BS, MD's aren't bad knives, just a little overpriced for O1 steel and plastic handles. They will serve you well if you take care of them and don't abuse them.
Busse's on the other hand will serve you well, require little care, you can abuse them all day, don't come with all the stories,their warranty service is excellent, and dealing with Jerry Busse or Andy Prisco is a pleasure instead of some kind of make believe idol worship.
MD's do look kind of cool, though.
[This message has been edited by lifter4Him@aol.com (edited 03-03-2001).]
[This message has been edited by lifter4Him@aol.com (edited 03-03-2001).]
Since I see you're from Belvidere, first you better go down to Hot Dog Johnnie's by Rt.46 and stock up on them babies.
A search under Mad Dog will reap hours of reading and entertainment.
If you can get past the hype and self grandizing BS, MD's aren't bad knives, just a little overpriced for O1 steel and plastic handles. They will serve you well if you take care of them and don't abuse them.
Busse's on the other hand will serve you well, require little care, you can abuse them all day, don't come with all the stories,their warranty service is excellent, and dealing with Jerry Busse or Andy Prisco is a pleasure instead of some kind of make believe idol worship.
MD's do look kind of cool, though.
[This message has been edited by lifter4Him@aol.com (edited 03-03-2001).]
[This message has been edited by lifter4Him@aol.com (edited 03-03-2001).]
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Well, I was lucky never to have seen the little 'war' in person. I don't chose to either. I was considering a MD for a while, when a friend of mine (Nemo) told me he and Fred used a MD and it bounced off wood, it would NOT cut the wood. I supose they tried to sharpen it, but I TRUST Nemo. He says it bounced, it bounced; end of story. I go with what I know (or people that are good and can show me the new, or what takes my fancey,or the latest super...)
W.A.
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hjk; you may wish to peruse the pictures I posted on page 1 of this thread.
The knife about which you inquired,
Would be most likely the Advanced Tactical Assault Knife, or ATAK. This is the top knife in the top picture. This is a 7" bladed knife, and one of the most popular of the Mad Dog styles.
There are some other options, as seen in this picture, which demonstrates the differences more clearly:
<A HREF="http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=306668&a=2279510&p=33384541&Sequence=0&res=high" TARGET=_blank>
</A>
The top knife is the ATAK2 (the 2 meaning it has serrations, which ARE useful in a utility knife), next the K2K, essentially the ATAK in a 6" blade length. Below the K2K is an old style Mako, a six inch blade length drop point hunter. The bottom knife is the Pygmy ATAK, which has a 5" blade.
None of these knives are designed to chop with, nor will they do it very well. If chopping is your primary concern, get an axe or a Khukuri. The balance is simply too far back (at about the guard) for chopping to be easy. It CAN be done, as was shown at KNIFEGNUEN '98, where the atendees had to chop a 2x4 into kindling, but Michael Merriken won the contest with a non Mad Dog blade similar to a wakizashi.
Hope this helps, Walt
The knife about which you inquired,
Would be most likely the Advanced Tactical Assault Knife, or ATAK. This is the top knife in the top picture. This is a 7" bladed knife, and one of the most popular of the Mad Dog styles.
There are some other options, as seen in this picture, which demonstrates the differences more clearly:
<A HREF="http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=306668&a=2279510&p=33384541&Sequence=0&res=high" TARGET=_blank>
The top knife is the ATAK2 (the 2 meaning it has serrations, which ARE useful in a utility knife), next the K2K, essentially the ATAK in a 6" blade length. Below the K2K is an old style Mako, a six inch blade length drop point hunter. The bottom knife is the Pygmy ATAK, which has a 5" blade.
None of these knives are designed to chop with, nor will they do it very well. If chopping is your primary concern, get an axe or a Khukuri. The balance is simply too far back (at about the guard) for chopping to be easy. It CAN be done, as was shown at KNIFEGNUEN '98, where the atendees had to chop a 2x4 into kindling, but Michael Merriken won the contest with a non Mad Dog blade similar to a wakizashi.
Hope this helps, Walt
Lenny
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Lifter,
Man, now everybody knows about HDJ. Haven't been there for a while. But thay definitely have the best dogs I've ever had. Won't be able to get there today though as we're in the middle of a blizzard. BTW, where are you from? Going to ECCK this weekend?
Back to the topic. I have searched this topic extensively and used to tune into the MD forum on Knifeforums.com (am I allowed to say that here?) Used to think they were pretty good knives. But after Kevin's weird responses to some of the topics and the reports of breakages, I really wanted to talk to someone who owns both knife makes. I ultimately decided to get a SH E. What a knife. Suits my purposes fine. I'd rather have an indestructable chopper for camping and such than a "fighting knife". I'm a user not a collector.
We gotta do HDJ's when the snow lets up. Anyone else up for vein clogging hot dogs and fries? These are the best. And don't forget about the Birch Beer.
Lenny
Man, now everybody knows about HDJ. Haven't been there for a while. But thay definitely have the best dogs I've ever had. Won't be able to get there today though as we're in the middle of a blizzard. BTW, where are you from? Going to ECCK this weekend?
Back to the topic. I have searched this topic extensively and used to tune into the MD forum on Knifeforums.com (am I allowed to say that here?) Used to think they were pretty good knives. But after Kevin's weird responses to some of the topics and the reports of breakages, I really wanted to talk to someone who owns both knife makes. I ultimately decided to get a SH E. What a knife. Suits my purposes fine. I'd rather have an indestructable chopper for camping and such than a "fighting knife". I'm a user not a collector.
We gotta do HDJ's when the snow lets up. Anyone else up for vein clogging hot dogs and fries? These are the best. And don't forget about the Birch Beer.
Lenny
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HJK:
For me, the best all-around Mad Dog is my 3/16" Arizona Hunter. I like a knife under 7" if chopping is not in the mission. The 3/16 stock results in a knife that is light, quick, and well balanced. There is plenty of belly for long cutting strokes, and a nicely centerline point. To my way of thinking, it is a perfect compromise between heavy utility and defense. Comes in a false-edge fighter version called the Wild Thing also, if you want to tip the scales slightly toward defense and away from utility.
Mad Dog also makes a model called the Texas Terror at just under 5". Very similar to the Arizona Hunter, but has no straight clip. It is a smaller version of his Rezin 2000 bowie.
The best my be yet to come. Kevin is making a new model at 5.4" called the Bearcat, which is essentially a larger version of the Pack Rat. As much as I would be sad to have my Arizona Hunter benched, I have one on order.
All of these knives would be very light and easy to carry, much preferable in an urban setting to the ATAK in my opinion, and still plenty of knife for general heavy hunting.
General:
As to chopping, Mad Dogs do tend to come with strong edges on them. My Bayou Hunter came with an edge on it that really didn't perform well for me, chopping, or any other way. It is just a matter of sharpening the knife the way you want it though. An hour spent sharpening the BH to a finer edge had it chopping in a frightening fashion. Knives are very simple tools. If sharpened properly, they will cut. I think it is virtually impossible to make a steel knife that, though properly sharp, will bounce off of wood due to some defect in the blade's manufacture, unless you know of another steel crystal state that I am not aware of, austenite, martensite, and goodyearite maybe? Nemo and Fred are great guys, the best, but they have personal issues with Mad Dog, surrounding Mad Dog's unwillingness to provide Fred with a free knife to review, that effect their objectivity with regard to his knives I am afraid.
At any rate, the Busses are great knives too. I don't care for the big knife designs, but I think the Mean Street is brilliant, particularly the Lean Mean Street.
[This message has been edited by Steve Harvey (edited 03-05-2001).]
For me, the best all-around Mad Dog is my 3/16" Arizona Hunter. I like a knife under 7" if chopping is not in the mission. The 3/16 stock results in a knife that is light, quick, and well balanced. There is plenty of belly for long cutting strokes, and a nicely centerline point. To my way of thinking, it is a perfect compromise between heavy utility and defense. Comes in a false-edge fighter version called the Wild Thing also, if you want to tip the scales slightly toward defense and away from utility.
Mad Dog also makes a model called the Texas Terror at just under 5". Very similar to the Arizona Hunter, but has no straight clip. It is a smaller version of his Rezin 2000 bowie.
The best my be yet to come. Kevin is making a new model at 5.4" called the Bearcat, which is essentially a larger version of the Pack Rat. As much as I would be sad to have my Arizona Hunter benched, I have one on order.
All of these knives would be very light and easy to carry, much preferable in an urban setting to the ATAK in my opinion, and still plenty of knife for general heavy hunting.
General:
As to chopping, Mad Dogs do tend to come with strong edges on them. My Bayou Hunter came with an edge on it that really didn't perform well for me, chopping, or any other way. It is just a matter of sharpening the knife the way you want it though. An hour spent sharpening the BH to a finer edge had it chopping in a frightening fashion. Knives are very simple tools. If sharpened properly, they will cut. I think it is virtually impossible to make a steel knife that, though properly sharp, will bounce off of wood due to some defect in the blade's manufacture, unless you know of another steel crystal state that I am not aware of, austenite, martensite, and goodyearite maybe? Nemo and Fred are great guys, the best, but they have personal issues with Mad Dog, surrounding Mad Dog's unwillingness to provide Fred with a free knife to review, that effect their objectivity with regard to his knives I am afraid.
At any rate, the Busses are great knives too. I don't care for the big knife designs, but I think the Mean Street is brilliant, particularly the Lean Mean Street.
[This message has been edited by Steve Harvey (edited 03-05-2001).]
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Steve, you made very fair points. As I was once told, the truth is a three edged sword
1. Your truth
2. My truth
3. The truth
In there somewhere is the truth, however I stand by my friends, I don't for one min think Fred or Nemo would rubbish a knife for any reason other than it was a bad knife. The issue over 'free' knives is often in my experience used to cover up or atribute blame elsewhere. However this is none of my business and I was not there, so I will take my big oar and ship out if thats ok. I don't want to make any trouble hear, but I trust my friends.
W.A.
------------------
"To strive to seek to find and not to yield"
Tennyson
Ranger motto
A few useful details on UK laws and some nice reviews!
http://members.aol.com/knivesuk/
Certified steel snob!
Founding president and member number 1! Wana join?
1. Your truth
2. My truth
3. The truth
In there somewhere is the truth, however I stand by my friends, I don't for one min think Fred or Nemo would rubbish a knife for any reason other than it was a bad knife. The issue over 'free' knives is often in my experience used to cover up or atribute blame elsewhere. However this is none of my business and I was not there, so I will take my big oar and ship out if thats ok. I don't want to make any trouble hear, but I trust my friends.
W.A.
------------------
"To strive to seek to find and not to yield"
Tennyson
Ranger motto
A few useful details on UK laws and some nice reviews!
http://members.aol.com/knivesuk/
Certified steel snob!
Founding president and member number 1! Wana join?
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- Apr 10, 2000
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First it was Cliff, who was accused exactly of the same thing, i.e. wanting a free maddog knife, now 2 more
With all due respect Steve, I personally do not buy that version - if one doesn't like Maddog knife, then has a personal issue with the maker, because he(maddog) didn't provide a free knife.
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[This message has been edited by Gator97 (edited 03-05-2001).]