Recommendation? Can I ask for just a little sharpening help here?

BJ987

BJ987

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Hey guys. This might not be the right place and/or no one will want to go through the trouble of helping out a noob but I figured I'd try anyway. So I tried sharpening before... kind of, on a Spyderco Sharpmaker. I've watched videos, I've read stuff, I've practiced. I bought some harder rods and the diamond rods and I never got a good result (nasty looking uneven bevels, dull edges, etc.) I didn't mess with knives for about 4-5 years and then recently got back in. Now I have more expensive knives than I did before and I really really don't wanna mess up.

Now nothing is severely dull, just a few edges not popping hairs or slicing paper without ripping. So I figured I'd be just fine stropping. Then I recently learned that you can over-strop... And I'm almost certain that I have been. Or quite possibly doing that wrong too.

So today I bought a Work Sharp Precision Adjust Elite. Before I destroy my new prized possessions, I really wanted to come on here and get some help from anyone willing. Again, I just have some factory edges that either came "less than sharp" or I overstropped. Would just like to get them to a nice hair popping sharp, nothing fancy (because I probably can't do it).
 
Howdy. I don't have any experience with the guided system you mentioned, or any other system beyond a Sharpmaker and bench stones. Regardless of the method you're choosing, I highly suggest you first practice using a cheap knife you wouldn't mind destroying.

You can find hundreds of instructional videos and blog posts, but the basic premise is to remove metal from one bevel at a consistent angle until you reach an apex (the literal cutting edge). Once you feel a burr forming at the apex, switch sides and repeat until you reach an apex from the opposite bevel. Then hone to straighten the burr, ideally using ceramics although a butcher's steel will also work (efficacy of either option may depend on the steel). You can strop, if you'd like a smoother edge, but it isn't absolutely necessary. Then, after reasonable use, you can "touch up" the edge by running the edge over ceramic hones/butcher's steel to straighten out the burr. You can also strop it at this point, if you'd like.

One tip that took me entirely too long to figure out is to color the edge with a sharpie and check the edge as you remove material to ensure you are using a consistent angle. Adjust the angle as needed until you are consistently removing the sharpie with each pass on the stones. You'll know you've apexed when the marker is removed from the very tip of the edge and you feel a burr.

If at any point you feel frustrated, then welcome to the club. I've been sharpening my knives since I was 5 and I'm still messing up and learning as I go. Practicing on cheap knives is your best way to get better, and stick to the basics: apex, create burr, straighten burr, then strop to remove burr (if you'd like). Good luck!
 
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I suggest a leather strop........Get the feel for your edges on it...It takes a while but then its therapeutic,. To me anyway....... No need to remove al! The steel the other systems do........unless necessary..
 
I would start with inexpensive knives. Also get a good magnifying glass or loup. I have a 30x one I bought on the big South American river site that helps a lot. Also the sharpie trick works. You need to see where you are removing metal so that you can make changes. You want to make sure you are reaching the apex. The stikies above contain a lot of good information.
 
oldmanwilly said:
Howdy. I don't have any experience with the guided system you mentioned, or any other system beyond a Sharpmaker and bench stones. Regardless of the method you're choosing, I highly suggest you first practice using a cheap knife you wouldn't mind destroying.

You can find hundreds of instructional videos and blog posts, but the basic premise is to remove metal from one bevel at a consistent angle until you reach an apex (the literal cutting edge). Once you feel a burr forming at the apex, switch sides and repeat until you reach an apex from the opposite bevel. Then hone to straighten the burr, ideally using ceramics although a butcher's steel will also work (efficacy of either option may depend on the steel). You can strop, if you'd like a smoother edge, but it isn't absolutely necessary. Then, after reasonable use, you can "touch up" the edge by running the edge over ceramic hones/butcher's steel to straighten out the burr. You can also strop it at this point, if you'd like.

One tip that took me entirely too long to figure out is to color the edge with a sharpie and check the edge as you remove material to ensure you are using a consistent angle. Adjust the angle as needed until you are consistently removing the sharpie with each pass on the stones. You'll know you've apexed when the marker is removed from the very tip of the edge and you feel a burr.

If at any point you feel frustrated, then welcome to the club. I've been sharpening my knives since I was 5 and I'm still messing up and learning as I go. Practicing on cheap knives is your best way to get better, and stick to the basics: apex, create burr, straighten burr, then strop to remove burr (if you'd like). Good luck!
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Thank you. I do know the basic premise and the sharpie trick and I'm definitely ready to try it with this new guided system but the problem is I just don't know when or if I even need to use stones/abrasive. The knives I want to sharpen are not completely dull, just not sharp enough to what I like. (Sorry I tried to remove the italics but it's not working lol.)
jfk1110 said:
I suggest a leather strop........Get the feel for your edges on it...It takes a while but then its therapeutic,. To me anyway....... No need to remove al! The steel the other systems do........unless necessary..
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I just got a new one, it's a Hutsuls? on a wooden paddle with a rough side and a smoother side. Following what I said above, the problem is that I fear that I might have over-stropped my edges already because I was just swiping away until I got what I wanted but they just stay dull. I actually don't know. If you're holding the proper angle and pressure on the strop and you keep doing it over and over, does it eventually dull your knives? Or is my technique just wrong? And I know I can use my new system to actually sharpen it but won't I have to reprofile to do that? After I start that there's no going back right? I will definitely try with a cheap blade first but I just want to make sure it's necessary. Basically, I want to do the least possible to the edge to minimize messing it up.
 
BJ987 said:
Thank you. I do know the basic premise and the sharpie trick and I'm definitely ready to try it with this new guided system but the problem is I just don't know when or if I even need to use stones/abrasive. The knives I want to sharpen are not completely dull, just not sharp enough to what I like. (Sorry I tried to remove the italics but it's not working lol.)
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Awesome! Not trying to be condescending, just glad to know we're on the same page.

If your edges are no longer satisfactory to you, and attempts to touch them up on hones or strops aren't working, then I'd say it's time to move to stones.
 
I never could get very good results with my sharpmaker. When I moved up to the worksharp it made all the difference. Not sure how others do it but if it's the first time you used it on a knife I set it to 21° and run it through the course of all the stones 8 swipes on each side. I always wipe down the stone with a towel before flipping to the other side. And I wipe the ceramic one down with a damp rag and I usually use the ceramic one with even more swipes to get it good and sharp. Just practice with cheaper blades in the beginning and you'll have it down in no time.
 
Pressure should be minimal when using a strop.....You should be able to feel your edge......You can feel the difference between the edge and the main grind correct???...Put black Sharpie on your edge and strop it off........Sharpie worxwith stones too........ You can put a. Emulsion or a paste o. On side.of your strop too...... I have a four sided one....
 
Hvactech said:
I never could get very good results with my sharpmaker. When I moved up to the worksharp it made all the difference. Not sure how others do it but if it's the first time you used it on a knife I set it to 21° and run it through the course of all the stones 8 swipes on each side. I always wipe down the stone with a towel before flipping to the other side. And I wipe the ceramic one down with a damp rag and I usually use the ceramic one with even more swipes to get it good and sharp. Just practice with cheaper blades in the beginning and you'll have it down in no time.
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Thanks for the info! I definitely could not get the hang of the Sharpmaker. I was most likely doing something fundamentally wrong. I heard a lot of good things about the Worksharp so I have high hopes. Which version do you have? Specifically, how high grit do your stones/rods go? I'm wondering if the version I got is okay. It goes from 220-800.
jfk1110 said:
Pressure should be minimal when using a strop.....You should be able to feel your edge......You can feel the difference between the edge and the main grind correct???...Put black Sharpie on your edge and strop it off........Sharpie worxwith stones too........ You can put a. Emulsion or a paste o. On side.of your strop too...... I have a four sided one....
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Does "feel your edge" mean that you can feel the bite when you lightly touch it with your fingertips? I actually thought the sharpie trick was just for stones, I didn't even know you could do it with strops too. Thanks!
 
Practice on your cheap knives. Carbon steel or 8cr13v seems to sharpen quicker.

Unless I have a wire edge or burr, ceramic or fine diamond will get me to paper cutting sharp.

I would practice the light stroke on the strip. At a lower angle than your sharpening angle since the leather has some give.

I also would try stopping on a basswood or balsa wood block. I use a green compound most of the time.
 
Do you always have to reprofile and start with the lowest grit first, even if the edge is not completely dull?
 
If all you're trying to do is maintain the factory angle and refresh the edge to become crispy again, then no. You can set the correct angle and jump right to medium stones until you form a burr, then work through your progression from there. Or you can go straight from medium grit to your hones if you want an extra toothy edge. It's your knife, sharpen how you want.
 
oldmanwilly said:
If all you're trying to do is maintain the factory angle and refresh the edge to become crispy again, then no. You can set the correct angle and jump right to medium stones until you form a burr, then work through your progression from there. Or you can go straight from medium grit to your hones if you want an extra toothy edge. It's your knife, sharpen how you want.
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This is really the question I was looking to be answered. I just don't know where to start to get what I want as most of the edges in question are just factory or secondhand that are not biting or slicing paper like I want it too. And efforts on the strop appear worthless.

Please forgive the ignorance, but how would I find the correct angle? The sharpie trick maybe? And also what is considered medium stones/grit and what is considered hones? Currently I have 220, 320, 400, 600, and 800 diamond.
 
As to your first point, I ultimately end up reprofiling the edge on nearly all of my knives once I get a feel for them. So they all end up on coarse stones at some point.

As to your second point, the sharpie trick is your friend. You'll know the angle is right when most of the marker is removed in a single pass. That is, unless you're reprofiling, in which case you'll only remove marker from a certain portion of the edge until enough material has been removed such that all marker is evenly removed.

As to your third point, I have no clue where to begin with numerical grit designations. I have a mix of synthetic bench stones and diamond plates/rods that are designated only from "extra coarse" to "extra fine." I determine which stones to use, in which order, based on my experience with the stones and the responsiveness of the given steel to those stones. At some point you have to quit thinking so much and trust your senses. That's why myself and several others have suggested you start with a cheap knife and give it a go with the full range of stones available to you. You'll get confident before you know it.
 
You need to decide if there is an angle you want; 15 per side or something else. Then you reprofile to that angle. Otherwise you just match what is there already. If you are going to reprofile get coarse stones or it will take forever. Use the sharpie and a magnifier also!
 
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