Canola oil advantages

If you have enough of it, I'd suggest offering it up free for someone local that burns WVO (waste-vegetable-oil), or makes their own bio diesel.


I guarantee that if you offer it up on CL or ask around, someone in your area does, and will happily take it off your hands and recycle it to good use, on top of keeping a few bucks out of the hands of the big oil companies.

Maybe save it up until you've got 15-20 gallons if you can just to make it a more productive trip for whomever rides it to the other, but either way, this is a good karma situation to be in.
 
Javand, I think you make some great points. It's not the effectiveness of the vegetables oils that's the problem for high volume large scale industry, but the stability and cost of them. They can improve the stability some, but I'm not sure that they are able to really compete with the petroleum based oils in that area quite yet. Switching over to a more environmentally safe and aware product would come at a cost. However, if they capitalize on the environmental advantages they could maybe make some money from it,... or at least not lose money. At any rate, I don’t think we can overlook the role that money plays in it.

The point I was trying to make, is that for the most part the custom/handmade knife industry is just a small low volume cottage type industry. So for us, it's really a different scenario and the vegetable oils, especially canola for it's relatively high stability, can't be dismissed as being "improper" or second best, and should have it's place of acceptance within our humble community,... professional and hobbyist alike.

... From a purely scientific standpoint, I think the vegetable oils are every bit as "interesting" as the petroleum based oils.
 
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BMK said:
I received almost identical information from a major heat treating company in Fort Worth that does not sell quenchants of any kind.
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BMK said:
JasonSCarter,

The same Heat Treat Company that I cited earlier in this thread told me that any oil will work fine to quench oil hardened steels. I asked him about special formulations and he smiled. I like your innovative, non-conformist and rugged individualist approach - carry on!
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I notice you never give the actual name of this "major heat treating company".

That being said, I'd be extremely leary of sending anything to a "heat treating" company that thinks "any" oil will work "just fine" for oil hardening steels. Unless I'm losing something in translation, or you're giving us an extremely edited paraphrase of the original conversation, I think that the quoted statement is a very inaccurate generalization.
 
Rick Marchand said:
Really, Bill?.... that's pretty damn good. Do you do anything special? Mine got really cloudy a couple times a year.
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No-it stays at room temp (72-75 degrees), and I keep it covered. It's still clear, and it still makes good springs. Smells OK, too.
 
Does anyone have any micrographs of 1095, W1, W2, or other low hardenability steel quenched in canola oil?
 
Maybe if we all start calling veg oil "Bio-Quench" instead canola it will be consider a "real" quench oil! :cool:
 
The name canola comes from, "Canadian oil, low acid". It is a cultivar of Rapeseed (Brassica napus L.).

How about we call it Brassica-C100 or something like that? No one will have a clue what we're talking about and will probably be afraid to ask. :)
 
me2 said:
Does anyone have any micrographs of 1095, W1, W2, or other low hardenability steel quenched in canola oil?
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Or even simpler, quench some 1095 coupons and test the as-quenched hardness. That will tell you the percentage of Martensite you converted.

From DCR135's post evaluating the McMaster 11 second oil:

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/838436
1095HRCTEST.jpg
 
That would be quite useful as well. For a complete idea of what's going on, both would be nice. Does anyone have any tests like that in canola oil, or micrographs either one?
 
can you buy a computer and pay for internet service with foodstamps? it's all in how you rate your priorities
 
lazlo said:
Or even simpler, quench some 1095 coupons and test the as-quenched hardness. That will tell you the percentage of Martensite you converted.
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People using quenching oil should have done this already, right guys? Anybody have data they can show, preferably with pictures?

p.s. I do use canola oil for quenching O-1, but have never been able to hit the target quenched hardness for O1 (and don't sell anything made that way!)
 
I only have word of mouth info., about quench hardnesses of 1095 with canola. Although, some did use controlled furnaces and Rockwell testers, I couldn't say that any of the information is conclusive one way or the other, due to possible variables like exact carbon content, temps., times, geometry etc. However, there are an awful lot of testimonies from smiths and (knife users) saying that they got very good results in terms of overall performance on knives quenched in canola. Many users and smiths have done field testing, long term and short term and have compared the results with blades quench in commercial fluids. Word of mouth is that the canola quenched blades are very competitive and sometimes out perform blades quenched in commercial fluids. It goes back to what some have been saying about the quenching fluid just being one small factor in the overall performance of a knife.

I don’t feel the burden of scientific proof for canola, at least any further than I‘ve already gone. For one thing, I’m not making any unreasonable claims about it, and it is widely accepted as being a good quenching medium. However, it seems there are some who would like to discredit it and smiths that use it,... and I’m not really sure what the motives or logic is in that... ??? But, I doubt they are scientific in nature.

If it is your opinion that all blades quenched in commercial fluids are always superior in overall performance, all other variables aside,... then the burden of proof is on you and you have the right to start your own thread for that. Good luck! :)
 
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Bio Quench 100 is not just supermarket Canola oil. if that was the case, industrial heat treaters would be beating a path to restaurant supply wholesalers to refill their tanks rather than shelling out $25.00 per gallon for Parks. I no longer work in a metallurgical lab so I can't do a side-by-side comparison of test coupons quenched in Parks vs Canola. If this thread had come up a year ago I would have done that so that those who actually believe in metallurgical science would have something to draw their own conclusions from based on analysis.

-Page
 
sunshadow said:
Bio Quench 100 is not just supermarket Canola oil. if that was the case, industrial heat treaters would be beating a path to restaurant supply wholesalers to refill their tanks rather than shelling out $25.00 per gallon for Parks. I no longer work in a metallurgical lab so I can't do a side-by-side comparison of test coupons quenched in Parks vs Canola. If this thread had come up a year ago I would have done that so that those who actually believe in metallurgical science would have something to draw their own conclusions from based on analysis.

-Page
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If our understanding of “science” is limited only to the laboratory, text books and information trends on the internet,… I think we might be missing something.
 
actually Tai, no one has discredited the use of canola. On the other hand , you have discredited the use of commercial quench oils repeatedly by saying they're not necessary, not worth the price, etc. etc.
Many who decide to go to the step beyond canola don't really care what someone else decides to use and have said that many, many times.
I find it rather funny you're starting to throw around the word "scientific proof" like you own it.
 
It is not my intention to discredit commercial fluids or hype canola. I apologize if that's the way anyone took it.

It's really not my style to get all scientific about it, but sometimes you're forced to a little. Mostly just for communication purposes. I don't like picking over details too much, either, but there again...
 
As for me, I DO feel a need to verify whether Canola is a reasonable quenchant. If it is limiting the quality of my results, I want to know and want to make my knives even better. Until I see the results of side by side comparison testing, I will be skeptical of both Canola and of commercial quenchants. No disrespect to those who are happy with their results - this verification process is just the way I have been taught.

That said, here are a couple more advantages to Canola:
- Lots of people believe it is a good quenchant, so using it might help sell knives, especially "oil quench" steels.
- It makes a great and easy "antique" finish: I have some pocket tools I make out of S35VN. They quench GREAT in canola, and (since they don't have any long narrow edges like a knife) don't warp too much. A few minutes with a scotchbrite wheel after tempering, and voila - excellent and fairly durable "antique" finish (I have some "antiqued" tools that people have been carrying for just over a year with no signs of wear). Also, this finish would be easy to redo: just heat up steel to hot quench temp, quench in oil, and scotchbright as desired.
- Spills don't require expensive cleanup (unless you count my dog getting nto the quench pot when I left it outside overnight - was expensive to get resolved, but at least he's OK. In which case, the spill cleanup helps pay vets rather than hazmat)
 
Is there an ultimate quenchant? - probably so. Can anyone distinguish the blade performance results of one good quenchant over another? - probably not. You can quantify all you want but most of your quantifying is outside the envelope of human perception. Its like a deaf person agonizing over which state of the art headphones to purchase and use.

If it works, use it. If it doesn't work, find something that works.

For some, quenchants are a means to an end of making a good blade. For others, the "Quest for Quenchants" becomes a end unto itself.
 
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